Looking for info 1st Bn Royal Ulster Rifles

Discussion in 'Airborne' started by BGUNN, Sep 25, 2022.

  1. BGUNN

    BGUNN Active Member

    Hello all,

    I am hoping that somebody may be able to assist me in my search.

    I am looking for information on a name, RATH. He served in the 1st Royal Ulster Rifles in Normandy, unfortunately this is the only information I have and am not sure where to start? I am hoping somebody may have any chalk lists or info.

    RATH is not a common surname (as far as I am aware) but is certainly associated and found in Irish families.

    any help of information would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks
    Bruce
     
  2. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Possible:
    First name(s) J
    Last name Rath
    Year 1944
    Service number 6148465
    Rank Rifleman
    Rank as transcribed Rfn
    Regiment Royal Ulster Rifles
    Regiment as transcribed Royal Ulster Rifles (1st Bn London Irish Rifles)
    Theatre of war North West Europe
    Archive reference WO 417/76
    PIece description Casualty Lists - Other Ranks 1460 - 1479
    Archive The National Archives
    Record set British Army Casualty Lists 1939-1945
    Category Military, armed forces & conflict
    Subcategory Second World War
    Collections from Great Britain, UK None
     
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  3. BGUNN

    BGUNN Active Member

    oh WOW, that is wonderful, thank you so much!

    Where should I go from here to find out more information? A casualty list?

    many thanks
    Bruce
     
  4. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Somehow or other you have to get more information on who you are looking for, all my information shows is that a J Rath was wounded, you don't, apparently, even have a first name to know that J is right. The information that I posted is everything on the casualty list and if your man wasn't wounded or missing, he won't be in the lists anyway.

    Where did you get your information from, are you sure you have nothing else, addresses or locations?

    Normally, to research a service man you would get his service records, but for that you will also need a death certificate, but you don't know where, when or a name for that.

    Get a copy of military service records

    If you want to follow up the man in my post, then you will have to find a death record.

    What exactly are you hoping to find, you could look for the unit's war diaries but the best that will give is a name, even that is unlikely as other ranks rarely get mentioned.
     
  5. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Note that the service number 6148465 is for an enlistment in the East Surrey regiment?
     
  6. BGUNN

    BGUNN Active Member

    Good morning,

    Thank you for your response.

    As some background for my request, the name RATH was found in an airborne helmet in Normandy in the 70’s. The helmet is marked with the flash of the Royal Ulster Rifles. So unfortunately is all of the information I have, no serial number or initial.

    The man mentioned above, J Rath, certainly could be a possibility leaving his helmet on the battlefield due to being a casualty.

    thank you for your help, it is appreciated

    Bruce
     
  7. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    This may or may not help...

    First Name: J
    Surname: Rath
    Fate: Wounded
    Incident Date: 22/06/1944
    Information: Casualty List No. 1479.
    Rank: Rifleman
    Regiment: Royal Ulster Rifles
    Battalion: London Irish Rifles 1st Battalion
    Archive Reference: WO417/76

    1 London Irish Rifles weren't in Normandy (in Sicily & Italy in 1944) but it wasn't uncommon for members to transfer/be assigned to either the 1st or 2nd Battalion of the Royal Ulster Rifles.

    IF this is the same J Rath and IF he lost his helmet when he was wounded then on or around 22nd June 1944 then:
    • 1st Battalion were in and around Breville but they had NIL casualties in and around that date
    • 2nd Battalion were in Cambes Wood (Cambes-en-Plaine) and suffered a number of casualties from shelling
    My best guess would be he was with 2nd Battalion but the location where the helmet was found should confirm or otherwise......



    1st BATTALION - 1st Battalion The Royal Ulster Rifles

    20th June 1944 Place: Breville

    0300 - 52nd also report noise of movement from N of their position. 0600 - Situation normal. Quiet night but artillery busy, shelling of Le Bas de Breville area continued throughout the night. 1100 - A and B Coys change areas, B Coy coming into the reserve Coy area behind Bn H.Q. Very little enemy activity throughout the day, in Bn area, but small arms fire and mortaring heard from area of 52nd. Lt.General Crocker, Comdg I Corps visited the Bn area with G.O.C. Recce patrol visited WOOD 144746 but no contact with enemy. Bodies of two enemy had been moved, but body of Cpl Riley still in same position. No signs of enemy in Le Bas de Breville. Casualties: NIL Meteorological: Cold wind and cloudy.

    21st June 1944 Place: Breville
    0600 - Situation normal. No enemy activity noted during the night. Recce patrol under Lt. P.J. Bryan had proceeded to WOOD 144746 and reported that they had been unable to make contact. Several magazines L.M.G. had been fired in direction of village of Le Bas de Breville but had not drawn enemy fire. Normal improvement of defences continued and more bathing in A.D.S. 1500 - Patrol from 3 Pl proceeded to area of WOOD 144746 and recovered bodies of Cpl Riley and Rfn Keogh. No sign of enemy, but patrol from A Coy under Lt Milliken reported enemy to be seen in village. Bn snipers in position all day in WOOD 144746 reported that they had not seen any enemy in the area. The body of Rfn McGuire who had been reported missing the day before had been found and arrangements made for it to be brought in during the night. 1600 - Several shells from enemy S.P. Gun fell in A Coy area but no casualties reported. Casualties: NIL Meteorological: Cold wind and cloudy. Mail services interrupted owing to high seas preventing unloading on Beach.

    22nd June 1944 Place: Breville
    0005 - Slight mortar fire on Bn area, otherwise situation very quiet. A large fire visible from Bn H.Q. from direction of beaches, suggesting enemy hit on amn dump. 0900 - Daily Routine proceeded normally with visit by 2 i/c [M80?] and Loading Officer to BAYEUX in order to obtain comforts for Bn H.Q. Officers Mess. 1700 - Enemy S.P. Gun firing on Bn H.Q. area. Cpl [?] and [?] escaped injury when shell landed 6 feet from his trench.

    1800 - Situation very quiet. Large numbers of Allied bombers overhead, and bombing of COLLOMBELLES appeared to be taking place by large numbers of the dive bombers. Casualties: NIL Meteorological: AM Cold and windy. PM Warm, sunny, and windy.

    23rd June 1944 Place: Breville
    0310 - Enemy SP Gun shelling Bn area. [0110?] - Some activity forward of A Coy. Small arms fire and verey lights. 0420 - Shelling continues believed from S.P. Guns. Shelling and mortaring by both sides. Several enemy shells in vicinity on Bn H.Q. 0920 - Tank battle visible in area of STE HONORINE and some aerial activity. 1238 - STE HONORINE reported captured by 5 Camerons at 0300 hrs following silent attack. Enemy CA beaten off. 40 tanks supported CA, and 17 of these reported destroyed. 1315 - Shelling by own and enemy arty continued. 1645 - Aerial dogfight over Bde area. 1745 - Enemy fire 'leaflet bombs' over Bde area, large numbers including unexploded cases of leaflets falling in Bn area. Appx J. 1900 - Enemy and own shelling continues. Several enemy shells in vicinity of Bn H.Q. Considerably more activity by mortars and arty on both sides during the day, but no damage in Bn area. Casualties: NIL Meteorological: Fine, sunny in afternoon (Mail services recommenced).


    2nd BATTALION
    - 2nd Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles in WW2: 9th June to 3rd July - Cambes Wood

    - 2nd Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles in WW2: 2RUR War Diary

    20th June 1944 - CAMBES

    0400 Battalion move from Le Mesnil to Cambes completed, position having been taken over from 1st King's Own Scottish Borderers.
    0900 Commanding Officer’s conference held at Battalion Headquarters.
    1730 Short heavy and concentrated shell attack, resulting in casualties - two Killed and five Wounded.

    21st June 1944 - CAMBES

    Sporadic shell and mortar fire experienced.
    Lieut. C. LYNDON-ADAMS was killed whilst being conveyed to Field Dressing Station as a result of shell fire. The second Mortar Officer we had lost since the beginning of operations.

    22nd June 1944 - CAMBES
    0900 Commanding officer’s conference.
    Standing patrol on forward outskirts of Battalion area reported sounds of South Lancashire Regt’s attack on CHATEAU DE LA LONDE on our left flank.

    23rd June 1944 - CAMBES
    0900 Commanding Officer’s conference held at Bn HQ.
    1230 Heavy shelling in A Company area resulting in one man Killed and one man wounded.
     
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  8. BGUNN

    BGUNN Active Member

    Hello,

    thank you for this additional information.

    i had found out the only man with the name Rath traced in the Royal Ulster Rifles Enlistment Registers is Joseph Rath 6148465 who transferred from the Royal West Kent Regiment to the Royal Ulster Rifles on the 25th February 1942. He was discharged on the 29th August 1945.

    A listing on the Forces War Records website also mentions that he was wounded on the 22nd June 1944 whilst serving with the London Irish Rifles 1st Battalion.

    The additional information is brilliant.

    Thank you
     
  9. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    The number 6148465 is for an enlistment in the East Surrey Regiment as per post #5
    Rath.jpg

    He was not wounded on 22 June 1944, that is the date of the list, the incident date is not reported.
     
  10. BGUNN

    BGUNN Active Member

    Ok, that makes more sense.

    The helmet was found in Ranville and is a para helmet so would have been 1st battalion.

    I will see if I can apply for his records to find out more.

    thank you
     
  11. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    My mistake - Forces War Records shows "Incident Date" as 22nd June but as Tony56 states above Casualty List shows Date Not Recorded.

    If the helmet was found in Ranville then this could potentially have been injured anytime between the 7th June and 21st June as 1st Battalion only suffered one casualty on the 6th (Rifleman Woodburn missing) as 1 RUR were between Ranville and Breville during this period - see 1st Battalion The Royal Ulster Rifles

    It is also my understanding that the Main Dressing Station for 225 Parachute Field Ambulance RAMC was located in Ranville as well so perhaps was mislaid there - see Headquarters, Royal Army Medical Corps and 225 Parachute Field Ambulance RAMC | ParaData for details of

    The location as to where it was found combined with the above may help you to narrow things down a bit...

    Quis Separabit

    upload_2022-11-14_12-2-25.png
     
  12. BGUNN

    BGUNN Active Member

    Thank you
     

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