Long March POW Casualty 1945: John Antony Ronald Coulthard, Stalag XXA, Thorn

I don't know why your Dad thought he wasn't a writer; this account reads like the best thrillers.
Barbara

 

I Have posted a photo from Fort 17 in Stalag XXA depicting a member of the Red Cross being shown around by a German Officer. Is that officer hauptman Mackensen who was hung for war crimes in Jan 46.

I have posted below that photo a photo taken of Mackensen during his trial, is it the same man without his moustache? Barbara and my wife don't think so.

The attachment below that is Mackensen's statement from his trial confirming he was oi/c Fort 17 until the Long March and below that confirmation of his execution.

View attachment 74492

View attachment 74493

View attachment 74494

View attachment 74495

 

Hi Steve,
Looking at the image again, I think it could be him. If it was taken in the early war years (when your Dad was at StalagXXa then he would be 4-5 year younger then.
On an "Antony" matter, I found out yesterday my nephew James' middle name is Antony. He is in the Australian Defence Force and I hope he will read the thread.
Regards
Barbara

 

Hi Steve,
Looking at the image again, I think it could be him. If it was taken in the early war years (when your Dad was at StalagXXa then he would be 4-5 year younger then.
On an "Antony" matter, I found out yesterday my nephew James' middle name is Antony. He is in the Australian Defence Force and I hope he will read the thread.
Regards
Barbara
Hi Barbara,

I hope James does read the thread, and be proud of his forebear with the same name. I was convinced the German officer in uniform was Mackensen but not sure now! As you say, the photo of him during his trial could be five years later than the photo taken in Fort 17.

Steve

 

I received the 3 thumbnail pages below from a lady called Hania who lives in Torun (the location of Stalag XXA) and acts as a guide for relatives wishing to visit the POW camp. She is studying for an MA at Torun University and her subject is Stalag XXA; consequently she has a lot of useful information. The document gives a good overview of the escape organisation within the camp.





View attachment 73120

Antony Coulthard and Dad (Sgt Foster) get a mention for their escape to the Swiss Border, but the amazing thing is that Antony escaped eight or nine times. What a brave man, no wonder he ended up as a marked man in Camp 3.

The other almost unbelievable information in the document is that some senior Warrant Officers actively tried to dissuade people from escaping as it would upset the staus quo in the camp. They even went as far as betraying escape plans to the Germans; I hope they received their just rewards after the war.

Steve

 

Thanks Steve for posting all this infomation. People like myself from Canada would never see such information on xxa etc. Keep the info coming. Great job.

 

Hi Steve,
That makes a fascinating read. Thanks so much to you and to Hania. Is there any information on who wrote the document?
Warm regards
Barbara

 

Hi Steve,
That makes a fascinating read. Thanks so much to you and to Hania. Is there any information on who wrote the document?
Warm regards
Barbara
Hi Barbara,

Hania said it was a document from the British National Archives, but did not give me the file reference; I will ask her and then we can look it up in the index. It is probably an MI9 document, they had responsibility for communication with Prisoners of War to gather intelligence. I am beginning to think Antony received his MiD for his unstinting efforts to escape.

Regards

Steve

 

I thought there may be some interest in the letter I sent to the CWGC and their recent reply. It appears that they do not know for certain whether the remains of seven men from S/Sgt Aitken's column, who have no known grave in the Berlin War cemetery, were moved or not. The matter they are investigating about the remains of the two POWs possibly being moved from Quickborn cemetery gives a glimmer of hope.

I spoke to the man who wrote the reply and he said that finding Regimental or Corps insignia with remains is not counted as positive proof of identity. They are aware that due to the intense cold, uniforms were swapped/borrowed/taken on the march as people fell by the way side. He also said that there is a governmental agreement between all Commonwealth countries that exhumation will not take place to find DNA. Having said that, he added that if remains were moved to Berlin which they could not identify, if there was definite proof of Regiment or Corps, it would be added to the gravestone. I think a close inspection of every unidentified grave in Berlin may be the answer as there would not have been too many POWs from the Intelligence Corps

View attachment Letter to CWGC.doc

View attachment Foster_Enquiry.docx

I think Barbara and I may have to wait until we visit Kaltenhof and the Berlin Cemetery in May

Regards

Steve

 

I thought there may be some interest in the letter I sent to the CWGC and their recent reply. It appears that they do not know for certain whether the remains of seven men from S/Sgt Aitken's column, who have no known grave in the Berlin War cemetery, were moved or not. The matter they are investigating about the remains of the two POWs possibly being moved from Quickborn cemetery gives a glimmer of hope.


Regards

Steve



The reply from Tim Brown at the CGWC was very interesting. You wrote (above) "they are investigating about the remains of the two POWs" .Does that mean they are going to try and delve into the DGRE records further, even though this isn't stated in the letter? That would be terrific.

I am confused by the new group called the DGRE. I am thinking Antony is at rest in Becklingen or Berlin Cemetery or still in Quickborn. I would like to be able to look at the info about the recovery from Quickborn:
"a preliminary search of documentation reveals that at least 2 servicemen, 1 entirely unidentified and one attributed to the Duke of Wellington’s Regiment were recovered from Quickborn New Cemetery and transferred to Becklingen War Cemetery. It's a pity they didn't collect some tissue samples for posterity when buried Soldiers were moved, so that future technology could identify remains.

I haven't heard back from my enquiry to the CGWC but greatly appreciate that your letter was sent and prompted this reply. Thanks again Steve.
Warm regards
Barbara

 

http://www.everycasualty.org/downloads/ec/pdf/Lessons-of-History--British-War-Dead.pdf
A good article about what was learned from the problems after WW2 locating the dead.

 

http://www.everycasualty.org/downloads/ec/pdf/Lessons-of-History--British-War-Dead.pdf
A good article about what was learned from the problems after WW2 locating the dead.
Hi Barbara,

A powerful article. I think your Uncle Antony was an example of the lack of care detailed in the article. I hope through hard work we can reverse that and find his grave.

Regards
Steve

 

Hi Steve
It is an excellent article. It makes me think about the suffering of my Grandparents who couldn't get information on Antony's final burial place. All this, despite the care taken by Aitken in documenting the place of death and burial for each soldier in his care.
Something definitely wrong in the attitude of Authorities to the sacrifice of families and their obligation to take better care.

 

It appears Antony had no written ID on him to identify his body. However, he did wear glasses and would have kept them to the last?

 

It appears Antony had no written ID on him to identify his body. However, he did wear glasses and would have kept them to the last?
And probably his Stalag XXA dog tags which were in two halves, one to be snapped off when deceased and the other half buried with the man. I believe they were worn on a chain around the neck I still have dad's and they give camp number and POW number but no name.

I am sure a metal detector would pick them up.

Steve

 

And probably his Stalag XXA dog tags which were in two halves, one to be snapped off when deceased and the other half buried with the man. I believe they were worn on a chain around the neck I still have dad's and they give camp number and POW number but no name.

I am sure a metal detector would pick them up.

Steve

Steve,
If he was buried with his tag, surely he could have been identified? B

 

Steve,
If he was buried with his tag, surely he could have been identified? B
Yes, you are right Barbara. I guess if he is one of the two, he will not have been wearing his tags.

Another thought is that S/Sgt Aitken removed them before burial as he thought he had identified where and when all thirty were buried and the authorities after the war would find the graves. If only we could speak to him.

S

 

View attachment 73271

Thanks for trying to decipher the names and burial places on S/Sgt Aitken's list Diane. I went through the same exercise using the CWGC data base with some success. Where I couldn't read the name or burial place, I put in the date of death and by a process of elimination found the correct name.
Out of the 29 people who died in what was to become the Russian Zone, 23 were obviously found by the searcher teams and moved to the Berlin cemetery. 6 still lie in their original graves and Antony Coulthard, the only person to die in the British sector west of the Elbe, still remains where he was buried.

I have put all of my findings in a Word document attached. It aligns exactly with Aitken's list but I have filled in the names, ranks, Regiments/Corps and correct spelling of burial places. Of interest, the 23 who were moved to Berlin are all in consecutive plots, so I may visit the cemetery when Barbara and I meet in May to find Antony's grave.

The seven who have not been found by the CWGC are:
Pte P A Baldwin, QOR West Kents; Pte A Cheshire, Middlesex Regt; Craftsman J C Torrance, REME; Driver M Jagger, RASC; Pte G H Thomson, Green Howards; Pte E Walker DLI; and L/Cpl JAR Coulthard, Int Corps. I have printed their names in bold in the left column. They are all memorialised on the Dunkirk memorial.

Baldwin, Cheshire, Torrance and Jagger were all buried in the very tiny village of Retzow in what was deep East Germany. I had to put google earth on full magnification for the name to come up and I could identify a church in the village so there will be a cemetery. I am pretty sure they will still be there but whether their graves will be marked I am not sure.
Pte Thomson was buried in Wittenburg, which is a medium sized town. I am having trouble identifying the town in which Pte Walker was buried, the type is very hard to read on Aitken's list but it seems to be Walberhager or Walbenhager. I can't find any variants of that name on maps or google earth, can anybody read it??

L/Cpl Coulthard died in Kaltenhof and Barbara and I are pretty sure he was buried in Langendorf cemetery, the next village south; that is where our travels will take us in May.

I will send my typed out document and S/Sgt Aitken's original Document to the CWGC to let them know 7 of the boys are still out there. This may be the first time that they have known where they were buried, hopefuly they will take some action. If they do, all of the research wil have been worth it.
The Aitken document is the first official document that Barbara and I have found with Antony Coulthard's name on it - quite a break through. I wonder if the CWGC knew of it's existance in 1946 and how much effort they put into finding graves when the wall came down in 1989?

Regards

Steve


It may interest you to know that 3 x RAF airmen have recently been afforded known graves in Retzow cem where they were originally buried in Feb 1944

 

It may interest you to know that 3 x RAF airmen have recently been afforded known graves in Retzow cem where they were originally buried in Feb 1944
Thanks very much for that John, The GWGC seem to be indifferent to our research, but I think Barbara and I are are close to finding the grave of her Uncle but they want positive proof of who is lying beneath the ground before they will exhume to conduct a DNA test. A catch 22 situation.

From the research I have conducted on the 30 soldiers who died on Antony Coulthard's column, 7 have not been found and 3 of whom were buried in Retzow cemetery. I wonder what proof the CWGC accepted for the RAF airmen because almost definitely there are 3 POWs from the Long March in the same cemetery. Do you have any details of how the Airmen were afforded known graves please?

Steve

 

It may interest you to know that 3 x RAF airmen have recently been afforded known graves in Retzow cem where they were originally buried in Feb 1944

Hi Jon,
That is very interesting news, thanks.
Can you share any more details about how they came to be there and how they were identified?
Regards
Barbara