Location needed for Parkgate, Wirral HAA Battery

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Malcolm56, Mar 9, 2020.

  1. Malcolm56

    Malcolm56 Well-Known Member

    Trying to locate where the HAA Battery at Parkgate / Neston, on the Wirral was. Can anyone help please?
     
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  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  3. Malcolm56

    Malcolm56 Well-Known Member

    Thanks TD - will look at the site -

    I am actually after the POW camp - I can't find it so I thought I would go the round about route looking for the HAA battery.
     
  4. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

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  5. hutt

    hutt Member

    33 AA Brigade Diary (27th Jan 1941) records a site at Ashfield Hall, Neston, Wirral manned by 93HAA at grid reference 755005 which when put into the coordinate translator comes out at roughly SJ 29076 79118
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  7. Malcolm56

    Malcolm56 Well-Known Member

    Hmmm, this is proving to be tricky. The 33AA diary looks very close, but I cannot find any signs on a 1953 OS map - though this is often the case. The map of HAA has also given - 'Mersey XX H35 Raby' which is nearby.

    Thank you to all who have helped.
     
  8. hutt

    hutt Member

    Interesting... Have a look at the attached, this is the (apparently) 1945 imagery from GE. A is Ashfield Hall but B looks just like something a little temporary and consisting of regimented buildings (POW huts) might look like and of course it all looks fairly new. Its on the site of what looks like a 1960s Local Authority estate so I can image those houses were built on the land once it was returned to civillian use. It may be that the place was administered from Ashfield Hall. No sign of any AA emplacements but at this resolution they may be tricky to spot plus of course some sites were never emplaced with particularly solid structures. Worth some further research in the local archives I suspect. The Raby site is, I think, a little too agricultural. My gut feeling is that many camps like this coalesced around some existing property that could be used for administration and of course provide a cushy place for the 'management', Ashfield Hall looks just close enough perhaps but thats my speculation. Neston1.JPG
     
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  9. Osborne2

    Osborne2 Well-Known Member

    I cannot remember where exactly but either in Western Command A or West Lancashire Area HQ or A war diaries is/are references to Neston as an army camp from at least 1941 with army units other than RA moving in and out. Names of camps in Western Command sometimes depended on the whim of the CO keeping the unit war diary rather than what somebody in Chester thought. For instance 'Northwich' was applied as a name over three years to six separate camps spread over about seven miles, four of which were really company sized camps in a two mile spread sometimes used together for a battalion and sometimes not. None of them were in Northwich!
     
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  10. Osborne2

    Osborne2 Well-Known Member

    WO 166/10950, Chester sub district 1943 has Neston with shortish stays by 6 Command Troops RE in August and 951 Port Construction and Repair Company in December 1943. thinking about it Chester Sub District files from June 1940 a better place to look for movements as the Colonel seems to have been strict about recording ins and outs into the County. I know this does not pin down the site but it shows its probably company sized. On the basis of 24 to a hut, that's maybe a site with less than 20 huts including wash house latrines mess etc. Weston near Crewe is a HAA site and there are plans and photos of it on the web
     
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  11. Malcolm56

    Malcolm56 Well-Known Member

    1954 map shows A and B - B may be a construction site - but that could be on the old pow/HAA site. 'X' on the map is where the 3AA diary coordinate is located.

    Best wishes to all. parkgate.JPG
     
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  12. hutt

    hutt Member

    I think grid references should always be taken with a degree of caution. There is an element of error stated in the Echo Delta site so it may be slightly off. Best to find a map with the military grid and see just how close they compare. On top of that we simply don't know how carefully the compiler of the diary or record was in recording the grid reference. You might have though they would give it as the house (A) but on the maps the area X appears to be parkland associated with the estate and from the 1945 image doesn't appear to have even a scratch of damage, something that almost certainly would still be evident if AA activities or POW huts had been built on it. My suspicion is the actual AA gun site was probably at B.
    Just some thoughts but an interesting thread that just goes to show how difficult it is to get these narratives right with 100 % certainly barely 75 years later!
     
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  13. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    I have found the origins & use of site B as marked on this map from the website of Neston Past, a local history society, and it seems it was never used as a pow camp.

    Neston Past - The Hostels & HMS Mersey

    The original plan for the site that eventually became the Ringway development was hatched in 1942, and was intended to provide ‘temporary hostels’ for those made homeless by enemy bombing in Merseyside.
    In April ’42 the Ministry of Works and Buildings, under Emergency Powers, took immediate possession of 22 acres of land north of Liverpool Road, ‘in the national interest’, whilst regretting, of course, any inconvenience this may have caused the farmer, William Croxton, based on Leighton Road; he would receive compensation anyway.

    Councillors and officials were invited to visit and inspect the finished site on July 11th 1943.
    The homeless Merseyside families never materialised but refugees from Gibralter did, and they were the first people to use the camp. Subsequently evacuee families from London and the South were there in August 1944, and it sounded somewhat like a holiday camp, with organised entertainment for the children including a sports day on that August Bank Holiday, and baby competitions and concerts. They lived in 4-bed rooms in blocks with bathrooms and toilets, and ate in the communal canteen. The complex was now being run by the National Service Hostel Corporation.
    Some time later the Navy took over the site and it became HMS Mersey, with some connection with the Merchant Navy and then a ‘naval demobilisation centre’.

    On August 31st ’46 the site was transferred from the Admiralty to the Ministry of Health. Neston Council had already signified an interest in the site because of the serious housing situation in the district, and they were aware of the possibility of adapting what was already on the camp to make the huts fit for habitation for the many returning servicemen.
    By around August 19th the first of the Squatters had in fact moved in, amidst rumours of Poles possibly being housed there. The Council had a meeting with Squatters on 22nd August; Chairman of the Council, F. Lewis made it clear that whilst they were in the difficult position of supporting the Squatters, (indeed Cllr Tilley had been invited to advise them on fuel provision), the Squatters were acting illegally and had in fact committed an act of piracy on one of H.M Ships.

    Neston Past | The Hostels and HMS Mersey
    Neston Past | The Ringway


    Neston Past.com & the Burton & Neston History Society seem to share the same website & look very active in local history, so I'm sure would be interested in the subject of this thread.

    Neston Past | Burton and Neston History Society
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
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  14. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

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  15. Malcolm56

    Malcolm56 Well-Known Member

    I have sent a request to the local history group. Will let you know if anything comes up.

    Malcolm
     
  16. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

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