LLOYD, James W. RAF. KIA 29/10/40. No CWGC record

Discussion in 'Non-Commemorated War Dead' started by burlington, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. burlington

    burlington Member

    In St Clements churchyard in Rhayader, Powys, there is a private gravemarker/memorial to:

    'James Watkin Lloyd. RAF Died on active service. 29/10/1940. Age 25'

    The problem is that I can't find him on CWGC. Does anyone have casualty lists for that period please or any other information that may help identify him.

    I have also looked under Loyd, Watkin, Watkins etc to no avail. Indeed, there seems to have been no Lloyd killed on the date in question.

    Thanks

    Martin
     
    dbf likes this.
  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Hi Martin,
    I've moved this from Airborne to Non-Comm section, as I thought it might be best dealt with here.

    If you feel it's more appropriate in either eg War in the Air, or Searching for Someone/Military Genealogy section let me know.

    Regards
    Diane
     
  3. burlington

    burlington Member

    Thanks Diane.

    Yes, I agree. This is far more appropriate.

    I am no expert on this sort of thing but have been involved this week on another temporary mystery on the WW1 forum at:

    POW in Turkey - Great War Forum

    It could be that family shame may be involved here as well. It was the '40s after all (my era!!). I hope not and that there is a simple explanation.

    Regards

    Martin
     
  4. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Found this.... same age and name as your man, died in Barnet
    Name: James W Lloyd. Death Registration Month/Year: 4th Qtr (Oct-Dec) 1940. Age at death (estimated): 25
    Registration district: Barnet. Inferred County: Middlesex. Volume: 3a. Page: 1875
    perhaps a traffic accident?
    Maybe local papers (Wales and Barnet) may have something on it?
     
  5. burlington

    burlington Member

    Thanks Kevin

    There is no burial under the name of J Lloyd at any of the CWGC Barnet sites that I can find.

    I wonder if this is a coincidence. Even if he had had a traffic accident, then providing he was in service, his death would have been on the CWGC records. He is not even there as a civilian war-related death.

    Also, why would his parents have put his name on the grave marker/memorial if he did not die in service unless there was something that they wanted to hide?

    Martin
     
  6. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    I am no expert on this sort of thing but have been involved this week on another temporary mystery on the WW1 forum at:

    POW in Turkey - Great War Forum



    Ah, I remember it well.

    Are you sure it's not Private 235774 David Evans, 1/1st Hereford Regiment from Rhayader, Powys. Kia 27 March 1917
    as given over on GWF ?

    SDGW has residence Rhayadar, Rads.
    Born St Harmons, Pantydwr, Radnor.
    Enlisted Hereford

    The date, the Pantydwr connexion (which you mention) and Jerusalem Memorial had prisoner commemorations may be relevant.

    CWGC don't give the parents of the above.

    Geoff
     
  7. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Martin: Just because the death was registered in Barnet doesn't mean he was buried there.
    It is more likely that he may have been returned home for burial as his death occurred in the UK.
    As to why he's not recorded on CWGC in any form, I can't answer. I suggest you apply for the Death Certificate and see what that reveals.
     
  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    I think getting a copy of the D cert would be the best - if only to confirm one way or another.
    But in meantime, I've left a VM for Chris Harley as he deals with possible non-comms here and is volunteer for IFCP
     
  9. burlington

    burlington Member

    I've left a VM for Chris Harley as he deals with possible non-comms here and is volunteer for IFCP

    Thanks Diane. They have the expertise in this sort of thing. My only involvement in this is to tie up a photo I took of his grave marker or memorial (it looks more like the latter) for TWGPP, with his CWGC record.

    However, I may be able to do a bit of digging locally. I have a contact with a Rhayader historian and local expert but he seems to be away at the moment.

    Martin
     
  10. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Good Morning All

    Diane - thanks for bring this matter to my attention

    Burlington - Im going to ask some questions with regard to this case & I will come back to you

    Chris
     
  11. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    Found this.... same age and name as your man, died in Barnet
    Name: James W Lloyd. Death Registration Month/Year: 4th Qtr (Oct-Dec) 1940. Age at death (estimated): 25
    Registration district: Barnet. Inferred County: Middlesex. Volume: 3a. Page: 1875
    perhaps a traffic accident?
    Maybe local papers (Wales and Barnet) may have something on it?


    Some further info regarding the James Watkins lloyd who died in Barnet.

    Birth Registered Dec 1914 - Portsmouth, Hampshire
    Death Recorded 1940 - Barnet, Hertfordshire
    Father - James Turpin Lloyd, born Portsea, Hampshire 1889
    Mother - Winifred Lilian Slade, born Dover Kent 1889

    Cant see any link to Rhayader, Powys
     
  12. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Burlington

    Had a chat with Terry Denham at IFCP. Because there is no service record available proving service this would have to dealt with under the post discharge scheme where you could get the DC & if this proves he was in service then IFCP will refund the cost of the DC to you. Alternatively I could order the DC for you, but of course the case will remain in your name

    Chris
     
  13. burlington

    burlington Member

    Chris

    My one and only interest in this man is as a volunteer photographer for TWGPP. I found his memorial when I was re-taking Radnorshire casualties and, not being able to match him with a CWGC record, I decided to raise the question on this Forum.

    It may well be that he is not a non-comm because he served under another name or perhaps he was a deserter and the family have covered it up.

    Are there RAF casualty lists publicly available for that year? If so, a trawl through the lists, and going to CWGC records in respect of likely candidates, may help.

    What do you think?

    Martin
     
  14. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Martin

    I have a good look through the casualties of the day & Ive come to the conclusion that he is a possible non commemorated; however only the DC will truly tell. I will get it ordered tonight with a batch of others I have to deal with

    Chris
     
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  15. burlington

    burlington Member

    Thanks Chris
     
  16. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    From 'Flight' April 1943

    Wounded Or Injured On Active Service - LAC. J W. Lloyd

    Flight posted details some time after the event, would this date be to far down the line?
     
  17. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Peter

    thanks for that; I assume that is all there is

    Chris
     
  18. burlington

    burlington Member

    I attach an image of his grave marker or memorial.

    if you want a high res. copy of this please let me know.

    The year of death is certainly given as 1940.

    Martin

    Lloyd_JW.JPG
     
  19. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Martin

    forgot to say that I will forward a copy of the DC to you when it arrives

    Chris
     
  20. burlington

    burlington Member

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