Living in England during WW2

Hi Folks,

I am doing some background research for a book and would appreciate any help you can provide.

What was the safest place to be in England - from the perspective of someone in England at that time?
What was the safest place to be in England - from the knowledge we have today?
Could people have decamped and gone and lived in Ireland?
Was Cornwall a safe place?
I know that troops were massed in Southern England and this includes Cornwall, so were there soldiers everywhere in Cornwall or were there also places in Cornwall that were isolated with few people?
What could strangers expect if they went to live in Cornwall - would the people have been friendly or unfriendly, helpful or unhelpful, intrusive or disinterested?
Where were most of the children sent to, when they were sent to the country to be safe?

Answers to any of these questions would be appreciated.

Kind regards,

Philip

 

These might give you a flavour of Cornwall during the war:

BBC - WW2 People's War - Cornwall Category

Cornwall at War: Memories, Letters, Reflections from the Parish Magazines: Amazon.co.uk: Elizabeth Hotten: Books

Cornwall at War, 1939-1945: Amazon.co.uk: Peter Hancock: Books

You might also find Mary Wesley's novel "The Camomile Lawn" useful.

As to Cornish attitudes - at a guess, they'd have varied from place to place. It already had an established tourist industry before the war, so in places like Falmouth, Fowey, Helston, Looe, Mousehole, Newquay, St Ives and Rock the welcome would have been quite warm. Possibly less so in St Austell, Camborne or Redruth.

Moving to Ireland would not really have been an option, as there were severe travel restrictions imposed on the outbreak of war (to both Northern Ireland and Eire) and these were further tightened in the summer of 1940.

 

Philip

An interesting thread and I'm glad to see that Vitesse has already pointed you in the direction of the BBC Peoples's War archives.

When you say "safest" were you referring to safest from bombing or the more long term safety from possible invasion ?

When war broke out I was a callow youth of 16 years and with a sister aged 10 had to rely on my parents to make decisions regarding my welfare.

I had an older sister who had been living in Hove, in Sussex, and my mother and the younger members were packed off to her flat where we lived until 1940 when my Dad moved us back to London just in time for the Blitz !

I totally agree that Ireland was a "no-no" because of wartime regulations.

Good luck with the research !

Ron

 

Although many evacuees were sent to Norfolk it was not a safe place to be for example on 12th Aug 1940 these villages all received bombs. Banham, 5 incendries IB, Bircham, 4 High explosive. HE, Carlton Rode, 2 IB, Catton, 7 HE, Cranwich, 2 HE, Horning, 2 HE, Hoveton, 2 HE, Matlaske, 10 HE, Pulham ST Mary, 17 HE, St Faiths, 2 HE, Snetterton, 4 IB, Sprowston ,2 IB, Thorpe, 12 HE, Watton, 13 HE, West Caister, 3 IB and Wickmere 9 HE.

Date should be 21st August.

 

Austie333 I dont' know if you plan to cover the Home Front or if you are in London, but there is an exhibition at the Imperial War Museum about the Home Front, which I think ends at the end of THIS week!! Saw it yesterday and it was very good.

 

info here re civilian evacuees

BBC - History - British History in depth: Evacuees in World War Two - the True Story
Evacuations of civilians in Britain during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Wartime Memories Project - Evacuees

 

Hi Ron,

Thanks very much to you, and all the other kind folk that have tried to help me with these questions. When I think of safe places that people might live, I am primarily thinking about places that were not bombed, and that people were able to live quietly but safely. i can recall hearing about some better off people that deliberately went and stayed in places where they were not subject to the normal concerns of those in places like London, and so on. I guess my most general question would be what was the radius in which German planes could fly and bomb Britain? That is, was there anywhere that the Germans could not have bombed? There was also a guy, and for the moment I cannot think of his name, that wrote a book on those who would have supported the Germans in Cornwall - can anyone shed any light on this?

 

Sorry, the author I was trying to recall was A L Rowse.

 

Can anyone tell me how to find out what troops were stationed in Cornwall during WW2, and where they were stationed? Also, does anyone know of any resource where you can locate pictures of Cornwall during the war on the Internet?

Thanks again for all your help.

 

Areas of safety for civilians tended to be on the western side of the British Isles but away from industrial or military concentrations.With this principle in mind, the evacution of children was conducted to rural areas away from industrial or military centres.However, in some rural areas, were situated power stations and the Luftwaffe from prewar intelligence, were aware of their locations.

As regards the rest of the country by comparision and as an example,Hull,a major port on the Humber had nearly 900 air raid alerts during the war,some resulted in serious bombing and loss of life.Some large unexploded Luftwaffe bombs were not dug down to and made safe here until the war was over.This situation prevailed in areas of important industrial manufacturing centres whose targets proved to have been planned prewar by the Luftwaffe.

There were other cities and towns of note which on first consideration may have appeared to be be safe but proved not to be when Hitler retaliated for the RAF raid on Lubeck by the so called Baedeker raids on York,Canterbury,Exeter,Norwich,Bath etc.

Not that the west country was an entirely safe area.The Luftwaffe were conscious of the presence of Coastal Command at airfields such as St Eval and other Cornish airfields used on the route to and fro Gib.So while the Luftwaffe attentions were drawn to these airfields,it did result in air activity over the peninsula.So while a rural area might be peaceful and not be centered on war artivities,some rural areas lay on the path of incoming Luftwaffe aircraft.

Dartmouth was heavily bombed,the attraction being the RN MTB activities here and those from Cornwall shores such as Falmouth to clandestine contacts in Brittany.Torquay was another resort bombed and was associated with the RAF Training Command training courses for aircrew intakes.Unfortunately,Torquay also had quite a large military hospital which was also bombed.

 

For 2 months in 1941 Cornwall was the most bombed county in Britain!

For a detailed account of the bombing in Cornwall see "When Bombs Fell" by Phyllis M Rowe and Ivan Rabey ISBN 0 9500 235 5 8 The book is based on the Police record of 420 air raids in Cornwall.

As for soldiers here, the locals were the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry with their barracks at Bodmin (although they spent most of their war fighting abroad). The county was full of a real mix of other regiments here for coastal defence in 1940-41, for anti-aircraft batteries, for training exercises on the beaches and moors. The army also manned some of the Chain Home Low / Extra Low radar stations in the county. From 1943 onwards the US 29th Division took up residence right across the county in preparation for their assault on Omaha Beach on D-Day.

While there is some evidence of "tourists" visiting the county, especially in the hot summer of 1940, much of the coast was soon put out of bounds, locals often had to show passes to leave their village or town. The clamp down became even stricter in the run up to D Day as there were a number of embarkation hards in Cornwall. The rivers Fal, Helford and Tamar saw large numbers of naval vessels (Falmouth and Devonport), and some parts of the Mulberry harbours. The port of Fowey was the main ammunition loading port for the US 29th for Omaha. There was also a large number of radar stations, wireless stations, etc because of Cornwall's strategic location, and there were 5 RAF airfields, a RN airfield, an air gunnery school, two AA gunnery schools and SOE operated out of the Helford and out of Falmouth. While county did receive a significant number of evacuees, particularly from London, it would be difficult to argue that you got away from the war in Cornwall.

 

I've read some stuff that seems to indicate Wales and Yorkshire were favored places for them to be sent. My Mum was sent to stay with relatives but I can't remember exactly where.
German bomber range limits may have played a part in decisions, but I have no idea what those ranges would look like. Just my 2 cents worth on top of the other already posted great assessments from others on here.

A couple links that may be of interest.

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/research-material/35842-evacuation-children-county-london-during-second-world-war-1939-1945-a.html

Britain's Home Front in World War Two

Cheers,
Wayne

 

During the war we lived in North Wales near Wrexham and it was considered safe enough for refugees. I wouldn't say that it was exactly safe though because we were only about 30 miles from Liverpool, and the Luftwaffe would jettison their bombs when caught in the searchlights or hit. The west coast of Wales might have been safe.

 

a few links here

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/general/31615-living-england-during-ww2.html

 

Thanks folks for your help. I live in Tasmania, a kindred soul to Cornwall, and have a mysterious attraction to the place that I would not even try to explain.

I am researching a book and my interest is where would be the safest place in England to send my central characters so that they would be safe and at the same time I wonder how they would be treated by locals who might see them as avoiding their war responsibilities by escaping to the country, and also how they would be accepted by the local population given that they might then, have been quite provincial [I have the idea though that lots of people from 'high society' might have had places in Cornwall that they might have gone to regularly such as holiday 'cottages' as they may have treated Cornwall as some kind of pleasant retreat - but I have no idea whether that is true or not]. I know much of the younger generation wanted to leave Cornwall as there were limited futures there, and they saw their futures somewhere else in Endland in the same way that many young people in Tasmania want to travel to the 'mainland,' the smaller part of Australia above Tasmania, in avoid to get work etc.

I wonder if isolated in the country [but given Cornwall is quite small, how isolated could they possibly be?], how would they live their lives and be resupplied with all the things they would need to survive generally; I am interesting in all these kinds of things including what they would use for heating, how they would protect themselves against imagined invasion and possible unruly troups, and what kinds of natural challenges they would face.

At the same time my characters would face some challenges as I want to contrast how they would live with the normal heroism of war and the general expectations of people, society, and the government; and finally how they too come to play their part in the great war effort.

My first thoughts have been of Cornwall, alhtough I realise that there were huge number of troops stationed in Cornwall preparing for D Day which I guess presents some problems to the idea that my characters were isolated in some way. Still I do like the idea of having my characters live somewhere there, and this would most probably be on the west coast of Cornwall. I would image that most of the coast was guarded with all the normal guns and pillboxes etc. and at the same time I am guessing there would be few places where people would truly be isolated and alone during the war years given that Cornwall has much in common with Tasmania and is quite small.

I have thought a little about the coastal tin mines and wonder if these were used by the authorities during the war.

Anything you can suggest, or would like to share would be truly appreciated. I would very much like to get into the pulse and heart of Cornwall and see how she lived and breathed in those days.

Thank you again for all the helpful advice you have given to-date.

 

Cornwall was seen as a bit of a "funk hole". I recommended Mary Wesley's "Camomile Lawn" earlier: obviously a fictional account, but it will give a bit of background.

You could also seek out a couple of books about 'B Bira', the Thai racing driver. He and his cousin Chula spent most of the war in Rock and there are brief - but informative - descriptions of their life there in Chula's book "Blue and Yellow" (Foulis 1947) and "The Prince & I" by Princess Ceril Birabongse (Veloce 1992).

 

Could people have decamped and gone and lived in Ireland?


Yes, they could, but a travel permit was required. My mother took my brother and me on a boat from Holyhead to Dún Laoghaire in, I think, 1944, to stay with relatives in the west of Ireland (my father had been sent overseas with the Royal Engineers). My only memory of the trip is of being really frightened when a crew member came on deck and shouted that everyone had to put on their lifebelts. The word spread among the passengers that there was a submarine in the vicinity.

Years later, my mother told me that it was, in fact, a routine precaution on leaving the harbour!

Belville

 

I am researching a book and my interest is where would be the safest place in England to send my central characters so that they would be safe and at the same time I wonder how they would be treated by locals who might see them as avoiding their war responsibilities by escaping to the country, and also how they would be accepted by the local population given that they might then, have been quite provincial [I have the idea though that lots of people from 'high society' might have had places in Cornwall that they might have gone to regularly such as holiday 'cottages' as they may have treated Cornwall as some kind of pleasant retreat - but I have no idea whether that is true or not].

At the same time my characters would face some challenges as I want to contrast how they would live with the normal heroism of war and the general expectations of people, society, and the government; and finally how they too come to play their part in the great war effort.

.

The concept of 'holiday cottages'. did not develop until well after WW2. Some very rich families had a 'country seat' as well as a 'town house'. It is not clear whether your family is envisaged as being in that category. It was usual for a country seat to have a skeleton staff in residence even when the family was not there. If you are going down that route, and you are envisaging the family decamping there soon after the beginning of the war, you will have to contemplate the risk of the town house being requisitioned by the authorities for other purposes. You will also have to deal with the possibility of some of the servants being called up or directed to other work.

So far as the family resident in Cornwall (or elsewhere) is concerned, they would be liable to all the requirements of conscription as if they were living anywhere else in Britain, as well as employment registration orders and the like, black-out and fire-watching, food rationing etc.

 

My first thoughts have been of Cornwall, alhtough I realise that there were huge number of troops stationed in Cornwall preparing for D Day which I guess presents some problems to the idea that my characters were isolated in some way. Still I do like the idea of having my characters live somewhere there, and this would most probably be on the west coast of Cornwall. I would image that most of the coast was guarded with all the normal guns and pillboxes etc. and at the same time I am guessing there would be few places where people would truly be isolated and alone during the war years given that Cornwall has much in common with Tasmania and is quite small.

I have thought a little about the coastal tin mines and wonder if these were used by the authorities during the war.



Yes the coast was defended well. Cornwall's beaches were seen as ideal landing grounds in the summer of 1940 and there are concentrations of defences around the beaches of Mounts Bay, St Ives Bay, and St Austell Bay. There were also concentrations around the ports of Falmouth, Hayle, Padstow, Fowey, Looe and of course near the Tamar for Plymouth/Devonport. Elsewhere the cliffs act as a natural defence, although specific locations like the telegraph cable landing sites at Porthcurno and Sennen were heavily protected.

Check out these You Tube videos which will give you a flavour of the defences, and check out the You Tube Channel they are from as it will give you a wide ranging selection of the type of wartime installations that were in Cornwall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mxGnlvKklk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krk1-B108rA

In many respects Cornwall was insular. There are accounts of people renting homes to get away from it all, but usually there is some local connection such as relatives. A lot of the country houses and hotels were taken over by the military or War Office.

As for coastal tin mines there were few still producing in 1940. Those that were such as Geevor were given every incentive to produce as much as possible. The military made use of old mine working sites to disguise a range of installations as identification from the air becomes harder. See the 3 videos below for 3 different examples.

http://www.youtube.com/user/PhilsTeleTime?blend=21&ob=5#p/u/1/WAsJUHDN-h4

http://www.youtube.com/user/PhilsTeleTime?blend=21&ob=5#p/u/20/TxzR29XlO3M

http://www.youtube.com/user/PhilsTeleTime?blend=21&ob=5#p/u/24/tYkbJ1AyrnI

I am also aware of Auxiliary Units having their Operational Bases in old mine workings such as Wheal Marth at Lelant or Reen Manor at Perranporth.

On a more general note, remember that Cornwall is over 100 miles long, has 320 miles of coastline and would have had a number of villages and hamlets where you could be fairly isolated, especially on the moors. Many people didn't move far from their communities in the 1930's and the war brought about a great social mobility (as in migration). While much has been said about a "them" and "us" attitude between locals and outsiders, the Cornish word "emmit" (literally 'ants') is still used in reference to holidaymakers, I think it is more the case the Cornish reserved judgement until you had either earned their respect and trust or shown otherwise. The Cornish rallied to the wartime propaganda of "We must all stick together!"

I hope this helps.