Lieutenant Arthur Leonard SMITH - 2 Maritime AA Regt Royal Artillery

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by Lanride, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. Lanride

    Lanride Member

    Hello, the Luitenant Arthur Leonard SMITH MC (147455) fought at the 317Th Bde Royal Field Artillery in 1918/1919 in Belgium in my village. I am trying to trace his story and I found on his grave that he had also fought during WW2 at the 2 Maritime AA Regt Royal Artillery. Then named Major. I am looking for any information/ documents and photography. Thank you! Ruddy
  2. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA


    Service Number 147455
    Died 18/01/1947
    Aged 56
    2 Maritime A.A. Regt.
    Royal Artillery
    M C, Mentioned in Despatches
    Son of William and Agnes Smith; husband of Helen Mona Smith, of Gosforth, Newcastle-on-Tyne.
    Location: Northumberland, United Kingdom
    Cemetery/memorial reference: Sec. A. Grave 97.

    (From Findagrave)

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  3. Lanride

    Lanride Member

    Many thanks Ramacal!
    I'm mostly trying to find his picture to put a face to this person. I studied his unit's war diary during WW1. One person told me that he lived in Athol Gardens (Whitley Bay) in 1940.
  4. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    I'm rubbish at finding where he lived. Other Forum Members are brilliant doing this.

    If you are very interested in researching him, I recommend you apply for his service records. You can apply from the MOD for £30. You can do this with no relationship to the casualty. (Childrens names are normally redacted)

    I can't find out yet when he was awarded his MC and MID. Maybe they were awarded in WW1.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  5. Lanride

    Lanride Member

    He had two children, Vigny and Denley. Did they have children? I asked a Whitley Bay site the question but did not receive an answer....
  6. wibs12

    wibs12 Well-Known Member

    Probate records show that Arthur Leonard Smith, died 18 January 1947, left his estate to widow Helen Mona Smith....... and on death in 1947 he lived at The Dene, Allendale, Northumberland.
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  7. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    1939 REGISTER
    14 Athol Gardens, Whitley Bay U.D., Northumberland

    Name - DOB - Occupation - Marital status
    Arthur L Smith - 04 Oct 1890 - Timber & Plywood Expert - Married
    Helen M Smith - 19 Mar 1889 - Unpaid Domestic Duties - Married
    Leonard D Smith - 23 Jul 1925 - At School - Single
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  8. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Marriages Jun 1917
    Smith, Arthur L - Denley - Gateshead - 10a 1399
    Denley, Helen M - Smith - Gateshead - 10a 1399


    Smith, Kathleen V - Denley - Castle W - Mar 1920

    " G " BRANCH.
    Appointment to commission.

    As Section Officers, extended service • (three years
    on the active list and two years on the reserve)*:—
    20th May 1948.
    Kathleen Vigny SMITH (5891) (seniority 7th Apr. 1943)

    Smith, Leonard D - Denley - Tynemouth - Sep 1925
    NAME: Leonard D Smith
    SPOUSE: Brenda Armstrong
    MARRIAGE: Oct 1950 - Northumberland West

    NAME: Leonard Denley Smith
    BIRTH: 23 Jul 1925
    DEATH: Nov 1987 - Northumberland North
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  9. ozzy16

    ozzy16 Patron Patron

    First name ............Arthur Leonard
    Last name.............Smith
    London Gazette ref ...........LG: 31119/11 Jan 1919 (c)
    Regiment..............D/317 Bde Royal Field Artillery
    Medal type............Military Cross, 1914-1918

    From the British Campaign, Gallantry & long Service Medals & Awards.

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  10. Lanride

    Lanride Member

    Thank you for this information!
    I found that Kathleen Vigny SMITH is buried in a common grave. She died in 2012.
    I think unmarried and childless.
    I didn't find Leonard Denley SMITH's grave, nor if he had had children. Grave Kathleen SMITH 1920 2012.JPG
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  11. wibs12

    wibs12 Well-Known Member

    Lanride, never easy to challenge what someone says is right, especially the OP, but I'd rather question you, be wrong and look a muppet, than not question you and see you maybe miss out on some helpful info......:D

    Are you certain the gravestone is correct?...... if you know definitively without a doubt from an irrefutable source that it is, then I'll skulk away quietly....... but....... there's no mention of her middle name or even just an initial which can be unusual for burials...... and more than that I thought I'd spotted a decent shout for a potential marriage earlier....... right forename, surname and initial.... right age bracket.... right location...... and they did go on to have a couple of kids.

    You'd need to order the marriage cert from GRO to be certain..... if it were me it'd be worth £11 to be sure, but only if there was any doubt re the gravestone.


    Name: Kathleen V Smith
    Registration Date: Jul 1954
    Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
    Registration district: Northumberland West
    Inferred County: Northumberland
    Spouse: Ralph V H Kain
    Volume Number: 1b
    Page Number: 1039
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  12. Lanride

    Lanride Member

    Paul, I understand you very well. I myself am lost by so much information that diverges... I found this picture on the Find Grave website. So no certainty for me. I've been looking for more than 4 years and I feel like I'm going in circles. On Arthur Leonard SMITH's grave, it says that his children's names are Vigny and Denley. Then I learn that it is actually Kathleen Vigny and Leonard Denley SMITH :-(
  13. Lanride

    Lanride Member

    Hello, I am happy with the information you have given me. I'm moving on, how do I find Kathleen Vigny and Leonard Denley's children then?
  14. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Lanride, you say,_

    " So no certainty for me. I've been looking for more than 4 years and I feel like I'm going in circles."

    Some times in life you don't find the answers you crave. I'm still looking for details on a mystery that extends across 106 years and three generations of family. Lots of people will never ever find the answers. In my case, I still have the occasional need to scratch the proverbial itch and with modern technology and more collections opening up, I live in hope. ;)
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  15. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

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  16. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    Ralph Kain seems to be Ralph Vivian Henry Kain, born 1914 in Doncaster, Yorkshire. He is the son of James Henry Rowles Kain (born 1874).
    There are several online trees for James & his family on the ancestry website. If you were a member of that site they allow you to send a message to the owners of these & it may get you contact with the family.
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  17. Lanride

    Lanride Member

    In the end, I was wrong and Wipbs12 (Paul) was right.
    Following your answers and the official documents consulted, Kathleen Vigny SMITH (100 years old and alive?) was married and had two children: KAIN Joanna V in 1956 and KAIN Colin in 1957...
  18. Richelieu

    Richelieu Well-Known Member

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  19. ozzy16

    ozzy16 Patron Patron

    A very brave and courageous soldier.

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  20. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    He had a busy war. This is from a post on the Great War Forum
    The 317th Brigade was a 2nd line Territorial Force unit.

    The Brigades origins are the 3rd Northumbrian Brigade RFA who's headquarters were in Seaham on the coast of County Durham. The 2nd line Territorials were formed at the beginning of the war for home defence purposes when the first line units went overseas. The brigade was designated 2/3 Northumbrian Brigade RFA being part of the 2/Northumbrian Divisional Artillery. They were re-designated 317th Brigade RFA when the TF Royal Field Artillery changed from titles to numbers in May 1916.

    The 2nd line Northumbrian Brigades were sent to France on July 2nd 1916 to join the 63rd Royal Naval Division, who did not have a designated divisional artillery. The 317th Brigade remained in support of the 63 RND until the end of the war.

    The Long Trail has an outline of the RND:

    63rd (Royal Naval) Division – The Long, Long Trail

    Information on the 2/3 Northumbrian Brigade with their deployments can be found on the Wikipedia page for 2nd (Seaham) Durham Artillery Volunteer Corps

    2nd (Seaham) Durham Artillery Volunteer Corps - Wikipedia

    The action in the MC citation reads like the first day of the Kaiserschlacht.
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