Hi all Ali Mayor I started to research these 1997, but always a dead end no one actually knew the full story. Last week end having a clear out in the shed I found my four 1/35th scale Centaurs ‘s C.S. Mk.IV and my part built Lct. Abandoned as a project back in 1997. But still liked the idea of finishing it off. I tried on another Tank Forum the lead I got brought me here. Lucky me because now I feel that I am going to get somewhere at last. The info to-day is fantastic and to learn about your find is now steering me to LCT(A) 2428. The ramp you ask about was to elevate two Centaur’s enabling them to fire over the ramp door. Not sure if this was to be for the engineless type. I have seen a model supposedly what it was like I will try to copy it and post it on here. Remember not the words of your Enemies, Only the silence of our Friends. Panther Ausf G 122 Brian
Hi all Ali These are from a model site so my not be accurate just a representative idea. Looking forward to more info on your find. Remember not the words of your Enemies, Only the silence of our Friends. Panther Ausf G 122 Brian
Here's a photo of the ramps under construction. I understand that ammunition for the beach assaullt was stored underneath and there was a hatchway built into the ramp. I also have some designs for a winch arrangement but I don't think they were ever installed. Our first dive on the site that I hope is 2428 is on 16th May (weather permitting) I should know a bit more what it is like and whether there are possible artefacts which can be used for identification. Here's another LCT(A) - with Centaurs
Hi all Ali Great photos! The raised platform ramp on 2285 is almost as in the model ones I posted yesterday. Your photo of 2121 would suggest that the second two Centaur’s could be on an upwards angle to fire out and above the front two on the raised ramp. As told to me back in 1997. The wading extensions fitted to the exhaust may have been mistaken for the blast plate I had been referred to. Now discounting the blast plate idea. Thanks for posting your photo’s that’s the first I seen of 2285. The NavSourcewebsite indicates. Unfortunately there are no images of LCT-428 / LCT-2428 / LCT(A)-2428 available. The Armour plating you referred to in an earlier post will be around the wheelhouse. There are suggestions that this could have been some form of Plastic sheeting, Pebbles & Flints padded bags (improvisation by the crew not standard practice) or Steel plating. Very interested in 2428 as its close by, now need details of the D7’s. I was told how they lowered the ramp door. This info came at an M.P.B.T. Show; I had a couple of my models there. Three visitors came over after much pointing and discussion; asked why I made an American Lct. I said "it was scratch built from photo’s so if I got anything wrong no one would notice“. Wrong! “We were on one just like that” and pointed to where I could add a few things; but basically I had it about right. Then out came the photo’s and many tails were told over the next three hours. One took my address and two days later came photo’s of their Lct evacuating damaged military vehicles and later in the middle east converted to a car ferry. Remember not the words of your Enemies, Only the silence of our Friends. Panther Ausf G 122 Brian
One took my address and two days later came photo’s of their Lct evacuating damaged military vehicles and later in the middle east converted to a car ferry. Any chance of sharing those photos Brian? They sound interesting. Cheers, Adam.
Then out came the photo’s and many tails were told over the next three hours. One took my address and two days later came photo’s of their Lct evacuating damaged military vehicles and later in the middle east converted to a car ferry. Remember not the words of your Enemies, Only the silence of our Friends. Panther Ausf G 122 Brian Brian, I seem to think that a couple of years ago I used a car ferry in Croatia and I thought at the time that it may have been an LCT. I will attach the photos, which unfortunately do not show much more than the front as I was just wanting a photo of the family transport. Regards Tom
Hi Tom, Did you catch that in Split? It looks familiar to one I went on to the island of Brac when I was on R+R. Andy
Andy, It was the ferry between Rab and Krk. We rented a house at Senj, the old pirate town, and had a great day out visiting the two nearby islands. Regards Tom
As a keen diver what sort of vis is there at the site. Cheers Paul Hi Paul - so I'm not the only bubblehead!!! Vis in the area can be from a metre to about 6-7. At 24m the wreck may be dark in May - depends on whether the plankton is a around and whether it's a low or high water dive. On the Tanks sit (3 miles away) we had about 3m in early June and 5-6m in July. I am hoping the Landing craft site (if that's what it is) will be slightly better when we do the main survey in August. Fancy a dip?
Hi all Adam. The photo’s are in one of my show boxes; will scan them to download for posting. Ali. You say in the future you will dive the barges near by. If you want to find a little more about the Thames Lighter’s converted to the D-Day landing barges; the various type’s and uses, from someone with first hand info. . This is a book by M D Jarman (Jim) He skippered one which landed on D-Day. “Those Wallowing Beauties” Not sure if this is the ISBN: 9781857762600 It would cost around £35 to buy; sometimes a local library will get it for you. Jim came over to chat at the M.P.B.T. show. and loaned me his copy when published in 1997; which I returned to him. Very interesting history and life aboard the barges. Remember not the words of your Enemies, Only the silence of our Friends. Panther Ausf G 122 Brian
Hi all Tom Your pic’s The open doors each side where the motorcycles are. Those are where the winches were to drop the ramp. This is as told to me by the three ex crew member’s ref: - M.P.B.T. Each side had a two handled winch needing a man on each handle, with a P.O. standing in the centre of the deck between each opening. So five crew to lower the door. Method: - The P.O. would order Left, Right, Left, Right etc to the men on the winches and they would wind away until the ramp door was down. If one side went a little quicker than the other he changed call e.g. Left, Right, Left, Left. Right. Then yell at them for being out of sync. As I said earlier we had three hours of little reminiscences like this. Later I went out onto the Jetty to look over and go onboard the real things. There was one on the newest experimental Army landing platforms over from Marchwood. Noticing it had two Z drives with a small Portacabin between them; the helmsman on each drive couldn’t see each other. Being inquisitive; asked the crew if they controlled it from the Portacabin. “No ten of us have to eat, sleep and all our kits are in there as well“. (My garden shed is bigger). So next question was “how do you steer it then, the helmsmen cannot see where you are going”. He said “Simple! a man is stationed at the bow” So I said "not going Left, Right”. The reply “No he gives hand signals Left or Right or above his head for forward“. I think to myself we have hand held radio why not use them. Before I could voice my thoughts; he added “These operate inshore very close to the enemy so everything is hand signals”. Then I though! Could have made myself look a right idiot there; especially as a lot of visitors were now interested in this new strange landing craft. Remember not the words of your Enemies, Only the silence of our Friends. Panther Ausf G 122 Brian
Hi all Adam. The photo’s are in one of my show boxes; will scan them to download for posting. Ali. You say in the future you will dive the barges near by. If you want to find a little more about the Thames Lighter’s converted to the D-Day landing barges; the various type’s and uses, from someone with first hand info. . This is a book by M D Jarman (Jim) He skippered one which landed on D-Day. “Those Wallowing Beauties” Not sure if this is the ISBN: 9781857762600 It would cost around £35 to buy; sometimes a local library will get it for you. Jim came over to chat at the M.P.B.T. show. and loaned me his copy when published in 1997; which I returned to him. Very interesting history and life aboard the barges. Remember not the words of your Enemies, Only the silence of our Friends. Panther Ausf G 122 Brian Hi Brian, I was aware of the book, and it's on the list of things to read. There is a good web site which looks to be written by Jim but it has no contact details for him. My main focus is the Landing Craft site and the possibility of it being 2428 but these wrecks looked too interesting (on papaer at least) to pass by! They are not sites we have dived before and add another (little known) piece to the Operation Neptune story which people may find interesting. We will only be doing a very simple survey of these 3 wrecks but it may be enough to identify type. Depending how this goes I am tempted to continue work on wrecks associated with the Normandy Invasion and I have named this year's survey project 'Neptune Wrecks' ... something that could continue and develop into a lifetimes work based on the number of wrecks in the Solent area - It could keep the members of Southsea Sub-Aqua Club busy for many years! All the best
Hi all Adam. Sorry for the delay still not located the Lct photo’s but looking. Ali Unfortunately Jim died last August. LBE.49 (ex-Hermit II), sailed from Chichester for Gold beach. LBE.49, Sub Lt William Jarman RNVR in command, was Flotilla Barge (wb) Landing Barge Emergency, or Emergency Repair, of Engineering, LBE - to provide maintenance and repair facilities for landing craft, including salvage. Equipped with stern ramp and carried workshop lorry (generator, lathe, drills, forge, anvil etc) which could be landed when needed or crawler crane for landing when possible. The LBE also carried its own generator, benches, welding & cutting equipment, forge & anvil, pumps, spare batteries etc and displayed a REPAIRS sign. Carrying capacity - 150t or 200t ; main armament, 20mm Oerlikon; 1+9 deck/engine-room/maintenance crew, plus flotilla specialists up to total of 25. Each barge had officer in command. Landing Barge Oil, LBO - to supply diesel or petrol to coastal forces, landing craft, landing barges; refuelled from fuel tankers lying offshore. Equipped with cylindrical 40t/9,000 gallon capacity tank, two 5inch hand pumps, and displayed a DIESEL, PETROL, 73 OCT (‘Pool’ petrol), 87 OCT or 100 OCT sign; not ramped. Carrying capacity - 150t or 200t; armed with twin Lewis guns; crew of 5 including PO or L/S coxswain. Unpopular posting as considered a floating bomb and no smoking had to be observed at all times (officially). Landing Barge Water, LBW - to supply water to coastal forces, landing craft, landing barges; refuelled from water tankers lying offshore. Equipped with cylindrical 40t/9,000 gallon capacity tank, two 5inch hand pumps, and displayed a WATER sign; not ramped. Carrying capacity - 150t or 200t; armed with twin Lewis guns; crew of 5 including PO or L/S coxswain When you dive the barges unless they still have the original signage they could be Water or Oil… They were only referred to as Barge after conversion; they were originally Thames lighters. Thames Barges were sailing ships totally different, some preserved ones are still on the Thames and Medway. They still race them every year. Remember not the words of your Enemies, Only the silence of our Friends. Panther Ausf G 122 Brian
Thanks Brian, this is very interesting and useful information. I have no doubt that the signage will have long gone but we may be able to identify something from them. Pictures would be good if anyone has any? For those of you who know Pompey - and the M275 there is what appears to be a barge moored in the chanel between Tipner and Pounds yard - dies anyone know whether it is a WW2 barge/lighter (I'm no good at these things). Thanks for your help
Found this pic while looking for something else. Lovely composition, nice mix of vehicles. Engineers loading for D-Day?? Love the folded up spotter aircraft (Auster) in the back of GMC (??). Looks very ordered. Edit: resized pic and added full size as an attachment (well worth a shufti - it's a corker! ) ~A
Hi Alison, Are they doing a 4th Series? I already have the first three- all enjoyable and atleast every other show has a WW2 story Cheers Andy Hi Andy, I have heard from the BBC Coast team. The new series of Coast is provisionally due to start on Tuesday 14th July at 20:00 on BBC 2. The first episode covers Whistable to the IOW and will feature the Tanks and bulldozers project we did last year. There will be some of the underwater footage of the vehicles - but don't blink - of the 8 hours of underwater filming we did they have just over a minute in the programme! Hopefully you will see the Centaurs and armoured D7s amongst the shoals of fish. Anyway, I hope you enjoy watching it. Regards
Hi all, Just to update you on the results of the diving survey trying to lacate the wreck of LCT(A) 2428- and there's a big surprise - We found a large BOMB(!) :mellow:at the wreck site amongst other things of inetrest. We have been in touch with the Coastguard :coastguard:and RN Bomb disposal team who have looked at some of the images taken and their first thoughts are that it is likely to be a 250lb Genrman arial bomb - a pure coincidence that it lies on the wrecksite. The RN intend to carry out an investigation and 'deal with it', though I am hopeful it will be blown up away from the wreck site. Unfortunately the Coastguard have placed an exclusion zone around the area - and as a result I am not flavour of the month with some Selsey fishermen. In terms of the wreck itself I am confident that we have enough evidence to establish a link to the tanks and bulldozers wreck site and believe it to be the wreck of LCT(A) 2428 - though without a builders plate I cannot be 100% certain enough to provide the conclusive proof. We found 95mm HE shells - the same as were used by the Centaurs at the Tanks & Bulldozers site. We also found a 4 bladed propeller (37" diameter) which is the right size for an LCT Mk5 (A), and we found 2 others at the T&B site. We also found 2 gun turrets - one with barrel the other without - there is a gun barrel at the T&B site. Plenty of other evidence too, but the wreck is well broken, and scattered over a relatively large area. I'll post some images shortly. Are there any specialists out there in rusty metal and LCTs that could help perhaps identify some bits of a LCT? Or does anyone know where I would find the makers plate on a LCT Mk 5? Does anyone know about 250lb German bombs - eg what aircraft carried them? Looking forward to some comments
