Lance Corporal James Hart 1st Battalion Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by tag, Apr 22, 2020.

  1. tag

    tag Member

    Hello

    I'm looking for some help in getting more information on a relative who served in WW2.

    I recently found out that my Dad's Uncle was in the 1st Battalion in the Black Watch in WW2 and, as very little is known about him in the family, I'm trying to find out more information about him.

    The information I have is:
    Name: James Hart
    DOB: 1916
    Date of Death: 9 Oct 1941
    Service No: 2762223
    Rank: Lance Corporal
    Unit: 1st Battalion
    Regiment: Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)
    Parents: William Henry Hart & Alice Hart
    Originally from Leigh in Lancashire, UK (possibly born in Ashton in Makerfield)
    Buried: in Leigh Cemetery

    This was from his death record, but I've been unable to find any information about what happened to him, or anything about his military history.

    My Grandmother had a photo of him in his uniform, which my Dad remembers seeing, but this has now been lost and there are no family members left to ask about him.

    I've looked on the usual ancestry and national archives websites, but haven't been able to find out what happened to him, or when he enlisted etc. The family don't have any connection to Scotland (as far as we know), so my Dad wasn't sure how he ended up being with the Royal Highlanders.

    Can anyone help or point me in the right direction?

    Thanks so much
     
    amberdog45 likes this.
  2. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Hi there, here's the link to to CWGC entry. Scroll to the bottom of the page for a bit more detail on his grave.
    Casualty

    You will need to apply for his full service record from the MOD in Glasgow. Costs £30 and you might have to wait awhile because of the virus.

    I see there is only one entry for him in the Army Casualty Lists on Find My Past.

    He was likely transferred to the Black Watch. They were moved about like pieces on a chessboard. My Dad was Scottish, but never served in any Scottish regiments. But he was a jockey at Newmarket when he was called up in '42.

    Have you found him or his parents on the 1939 Register on Ancestry?
    Cheers - Maria (welcome to the forum).
     
    tag and Tony56 like this.
  3. tag

    tag Member

    Thanks so much. I had found him on the War Graves site, which is how I got his rank and service number info. Struggling to find anything else about him.

    I have found his parents on the 1939 register, but he isn't listed and I haven't been able to pin down where he might have been.
     
  4. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Tricky Dicky and tag like this.
  5. tag

    tag Member

    That raises even more questions!
    Thanks for finding that. I can use his wife's name to try and track him down on the register.

    Thanks so much
     
  6. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Looks like they were married Q4 1939, wife was Alice Adams, therefore still single at the time of the 1939 register. Remember that some records on the register are closed.
     
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  7. tag

    tag Member

    Thanks so much! Lots to go on now.
     
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  8. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Marriage in Leigh Volume 8c page 538

    James Edwin Hart birth Leigh Vol 8c 568
    James death Vol 8c 457

    I can't see Alice's death or James death in '41 at the free website freebmd.

    There is a 25 year old James Hart in the death records on the website Scotlandspeople. Death registered in the district of Rafford (a village near Forres in Moray). You might have better luck finding his & Alice's death entries on Ancestry (not all are listed by freebmd).
     
    tag likes this.
  9. tag

    tag Member

    Thanks. I haven't been able to find James' (the father) death on ancestry, but its tricky as I'm not sure where he might have been. He was buried in Leigh, but clearly didn't die there. I've looked in Scotland records on there too, but nothing coming up that I can be sure of.

    I've ordered James Edwin's death certificate to see if it gives any further clues.

    I'll keep digging!
     
    amberdog45 likes this.
  10. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    There's a 21 year old Alice Hart died March '40 in Ormskirk, Lancashire (Vol 8b pg 1788). Don't know if that's near Leigh. Good luck with your search.
     
  11. tag

    tag Member

    It's in the same county, but not really near Leigh. I've ordered their marriage certificate, so it might give me a few more clues.

    I'll keep looking!
     
  12. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Hi Tag, I had a look at that death in Scotland and I'm afraid it is your great uncle James. The BW must have been training in the area. You might find something in the official battalion war diary about it. We'll have to find the diary reference for you at the National Archives.
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. tag

    tag Member

    Thanks so much for finding this, although it is a bit of a shock. Nothing was ever mentioned about his death in the family, so we had no idea. Poor man. It is definitely him as the family residence was 4 Banks Street (my dad grew up in that house too). How very sad.

    Thank you so much for this. I'll pass this on to my dad.
     
    amberdog45 likes this.
  14. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    You're welcome, wish it had been better news.

    Get his service record from here
    Get a copy of military service records
    You won't need his exact date of birth because you have the year of birth and his service number. Once you receive that, scan and post the pages here.

    I think this is the War Diary that covers events in October '41. Forum members Psywar and Owen usually copy pages for forum members for a small fee, but Kew is closed for now. When you receive the record you will be able to figure out what diary pages you need, but be aware they may not mention the incident at all.
    INFANTRY: 1 Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment). | The National Archives
     
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  15. tag

    tag Member


    Thanks. It looks like Kew aren't taking any new record copy orders, so I'll have to wait until it opens again.

    I'll look at ordering his military service records and will post them here when I receive them.

    Thank you so much to both of you! I doubt we would ever have known what happened to him without your help, so thank you for helping me solve a family mystery. Although it's not great news, at least we now know what happened to him.
     
  16. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Just for accuracy - it’s Drew Drew5233 and Lee PsyWar.Org who offer the Kew look up and copy service.

    I think Owen’s hands are full already as a Moderator :salut::salut:

    Steve
     
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  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Just for clarification - it cant be this one as:

    Name: James E Hart
    Death Age: 0
    Birth Date: abt 1940
    Registration Date: Apr 1940
    [May 1940]
    [Jun 1940]
    Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
    Registration district: Leigh
    Inferred County: Lancashire
    Volume: 8c
    Page: 457

    One to cross off the list

    TD
     
  18. tag

    tag Member

    We think this might be his baby son, which died the year before him - James Edwin Hart.
     
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  19. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Ah yes - was the mothers maiden name Adams - has that been confirmed?

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2007
    Name: James E Hart
    Registration Date: Jan 1940
    [Feb 1940]
    [Mar 1940]
    Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
    Registration district: Leigh
    Inferred County: Greater Manchester
    Mother's Maiden Name: Adams
    Volume Number: 8c
    Page Number: 568

    Sad story

    TD
     
  20. tag

    tag Member

    Yes, it states her name was Alice Adams on the report of his death. Its such a tragic story, but at least we know what happened now.
     
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