Two trains of thought structural failure or friendly fire incident. Flown by Ernest Deverill on the Augsburg Raid, it was declared a write-off after its return, but was eventually patched up and sent to HCU 1654 Wigsley, five miles west of Lincoln. Details for: Loss of Lancaster I (Reg. L7575 UG-Q) Location: Historical Data: Taking off at 1855 from Wiglsey for a training mission, their Lancaster I (reg. L7575 UG-Q) is suspected of having encountered severe turbulence and, with icing, led to structural failure of the outer wings and tail. At 2012 debris rained form the skies over Warren House Farm at Colney Heath, 3 miles SE of St. Albans in Hertfordshire. Islington Remembrance Project LANCASTER L7575 Crashed on training exercise 22nd October 1943, entire crew killed CREW Pilot: P/O Ewan Taylor Flight Engineer: Sgt Albert Rooks Navigator: F/O Eric Williams Bomb Aimer: Sgt John Thwaite W/OP: Henry Thomas Green, “Tom” Mid-Upper Gunner: Sgt Edward Stock Rear gunner: F/Sgt Bruce Davies There is also something of a mystery regarding the cause of this tragic accident. How far can the official report be relied upon? Or was there perhaps an entirely different reason? Crew Taylor (HCU training) Accident Avro Lancaster Mk I L7575, 22 Oct 1943
Interesting, what you are saying about the report being not 100% clear to you. Reminded me of what an old German chap told me months ago. He was a Hitler youth and was taken to a shot down Lancaster around Ulm. Because his English was better then that of the German officer, he talked to the badly injured pilot taken to the near by hospital. Stefan.
Neither of the casualty files for the two RAAF personnel have been digitised at the National Archives of Australia (www.naa.gov.au), it would have been interesting to see what, if anything, they contain on the matter. Their personnel files have been put online but they have zero to say on the loss itself. Crew: Pilot: Pilot Officer 16482 Ewan Moore Taylor 30 RAAF killed Eng: Sergeant 1623561 Albert Rooks 19 RAFVR killed Nav: Flying Officer 134704 Eric Williams 33 RAFVR killed BA: Sergeant 1510800 John Fisher Thwaite 22 RAFVR killed Wop/AG: Sergeant 1390947 Henry Thomas "Tom" Green 21 RAFVR killed AG: Sergeant 1812792 Edward Percy Stock 19 RAFVR killed AG: Flight Sergeant 417460 George Bruce Davies 20 RAAF killed DAVIES, George Burns - (Flight Sergeant); Service Number - 417460; File type - Casualty - Repatriation; Aircraft - Lancaster MK I L7575; Place - South Mimms, Herfordshire, United Kingdom; Date - 22 October 1943 TAYLOR, Ewan Moore - (Pilot Officer); Service Number - 16482; File type - Casualty - Repatriation; Aircraft - Lancaster Mk I-L7575; Place - South Mimms, Hertfordshire, England; Date - 22 October 1943
Sergeant (Air Gunner) STOCK, EDWARD PERCY Service Number 1812792 Died 22/10/1943 Aged 19 Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Son of Percy and Lilian Ethel Stock, of Hornsey. Casualty Buried at ISLINGTON CEMETERY AND CREMATORIUM Location: Middlesex, United Kingdom Number of casualties: 620 Cemetery/memorial reference: Sec. P. Grave 23515. (Screen Wall. Panel 10). Panel photo from my collection
From RAF Bomber Command Losses Vol.8 - W R. Chorley 22 October 1943 Lancaster I L7575 UG-Q 1654 HCU Op. Training. Took off 1855 hours from Wigsley tasked for a command Bullseye. It is suspected that the crew encountered severe turbulence and possibly icing which led to structural failure of the outer wings and tail. Thus at 2012 hours debris literally rained from the skies over Warren House Farm at Colney Heath, 3 miles southeast of St. Albans in Hertfordshire.
Hi all, I will try to get hold of the guy, he lives only some 60km from my home. As soon as I have more details of the crash, like date and exact area, I will start a new thread. I remeber however that the insured pilot asked: will all of us be shot? His repl: Nno Sir, you will be taken care and the others will be arrested. He visited the insured man a couple of times, etc. Stefan.
HCU's seldom received new aircraft and hence received aircraft that had a history of damage and repair..... ex operational squadrons....repairs if possible would have been carried out on the unit with the serious damaged aircraft being repaired by the manufacturer at dedicated repair centres within the locality of the Group.Such aircraft may have already been stressed in operational service.In those days there was not the technical tools such as NDT carried out as appropriate.Maintenance practice would be based on the manufacturers service manuals plus visual inspection of the various mechanical airframe and wing section integrity based on those susceptible to early failure. However encountering turbulence and the effect of icing may have caused loss of control of the aircraft.Recovery action by the pilot may have put undue stress on the airframe leading to its structural failure....not unknown for these aircraft to fail this way, after all the maximum G applied to the airframe was specified at 1.5 G with a maximum emergency specified at 1.8 G.....a very good indication that an airframe has been stressed is that panel rivets have been ripped off. I would think that engineering staff would have inspected the aircraft wreckage and concluded that the aircraft had visual signs of structural failure.Evidence of Flak damage would be investigated and the investigation team must have collected evidence relating to the operation logs of AA batteries in the area. It must be unusual for an aircraft to be written off as L 7575 was reputed to be after the Augsburg raid,then recovered to fly again.As I see it the aircraft suffered a fire in the fuselage on the starboard side from an hydraulic oil fire and also a hit to the bomb bay during the bombing run but this was dealt with by the Wireless Operator,Sgt Ronald Irons and MUG Ken Mackay. Both were subsequently awarded the DFM. Apparently the starboard inner engine failed but the aircraft got back to base on 3 engines. LL 7575 may have been declared an "Ac" damage category...."Repairable but beyond the unit's capacity"....probably ended up at Bracebridge Heath,the AVRO repair unit close to RAF Waddington. L 7575 was one of 200 aircraft ordered in August 1936 which started off as Manchesters but were changed during the contract after 157 Manchesters had been produced from 31 July 1940.The remaining 43 aircraft were manufactured during during the period of October 1941 to March 1942.This particular aircraft was delivered to No 97 Squadron along with 16 others between 14 January and mid February1942.
Clive, I know that, but give me 2 or 3 weeks to call on the German chap and his story about this crash near Ulm. It may have been another cause, but he is sure they were Brits, Australians, nor Americans. Bare with me, I will get back with a new thread.
