KOSB / 6 DLI - J.W. Robson (3191213): any details?

Discussion in 'Durham Light Infantry' started by 8RB, Jan 25, 2020.

  1. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Some 10 years ago I bought this grouping of medals, medal box (and sheet), dog tags and insignia. I have always believed these may have belonged to a veteran that took part in the landings in Sicily, Italy and Normandy, and that these dog tags may actually have been worn at these places. The medals apparently were never worn and also ribbons, medals and 8th Army clasp are not all correctly combined. I have decided to leave them like that, as I think it somehow reflects the effects the war must have had on this veteran. He never wore them and may well have kept his experiences all to himself.

    The grouping concerns a J. Robson, army number 3191213. I understood the red on green shoulder stripes were worn by 6 DLI only. Is there any way of finding out more about this particular veteran and his wartime experiences?

    DLI - Robson.jpg
     
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  2. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Pte Robson originally enlisted into The King's Own Scottish Borderers he isnt in the casualty lists at all so no clues there . The Red and Green shoulder title wasnt unique to the 6th DLI theres a similar set on Tom Tunneys 16th DLI website ?
    The 16th Battalion DLI 1940-46 Homepage

    Mellerstain,Gordon appears to be a stately home/
    Kyle
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  3. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Hi Kyle,

    Thanks, also about "Mellerstain House", Gordon! What a house! I will get in touch with them, to see if maybe he lived there.

    Could I ask which casualty lists you looked at, and where you find them. I suppose one should look not only at the DLI casualty lists, but also at the KOSB ones. I suppose it is possible he got wounded while in KOSB, then ended up in a "depot" and then was sent to a DLI battalion?

    I don't know if Ton Tunney is on here (what a great site he has made!), but I would like to know from him if the red on green shoulder stripe being on there does indeed signify it was also worn by 16th DLI. Perhaps it even is his father's. I am not sure about all this, as there are no other "militaria" shown on his site. As I understand 16th DLI was not in France, so J. Robson (3191213) was certainly not in that battalion.

    Finally, why do you say "Pte." Robson? As far as I am aware the grouping gives no clues about his rank.

    Cheers and thanks again, Ronald.
     
  4. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    In the case of this soldier, he was likely with the 6th Bn Durham Light Infantry. He has the France & Germany Star. The 6th Bn Durham Light Infantry fought in NW Europe, the 16th Bn Durham Light Infantry did not.

    He would have been entitled to the Italy Star for the Operation Husky landings and fighting thereafter in Sicily with the 6th Bn Durham Light Infantry. Unlikely that he landed on the Italian mainland.

    There is no mention of a J Robson in the index of the battalion history: The Faithful Sixth (Moses).

    As Kyle indicates, this man originally enlisted into the KOSB, which is consistent with him hailing from Berwick.

    To ascertain his journey through WWII, I suggest that his service records are obtained!
     
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  5. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Not being a relative of Mr. Robson, (how) can I obtain his service records?!

    Also nice to add: I just wrote an enquiry to Mellerstain House, to see if they know anything about him. I suppose he lived or worked there.
     
  6. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    When typing J. Robson's service number 3191213 (with or without surname) at British Army Service Records | findmypast.com I find: "No Results". Do I have the wrong number, or did I do something else wrong?

    DLI - Robson J..jpg
     
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  7. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    You dont need to be a relative

    Date of birth and death cert required

    Apply for the records of someone who's deceased
    You can apply for a copy of someone else’s service records if any of the following apply:

    • you’re their immediate next of kin, for example their spouse or parent
    • you’ve got consent from their immediate next of kin
    • you have a general research interest - you’ll only have access to limited information, unless they died more than 25 years ago
    You need to know the person’s full name, date of birth and service number.


    Get a copy of military service records
     
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  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Request records of deceased service personnel

    This form should only be completed by
    • the immediate next of kin of the deceased subject or
    • those who are able to provide the consent of the next of kin.
    (This form can
    be used by any applicant to provide evidence that the consent of the immediate
    next of kin has been given for them to be provided with the information from the
    Record of Service that would normally be withheld from other than the immediate
    next of kin for the first 25 years following the death of the deceased subject.)
    If you are not able to meet the conditions highlighted above you can apply on the
    Application Form Part 1 for General Enquirers (see link on the Service Records information
    page). Please note if the person whose record you seek died less than 25 years ago a
    restriction is placed on the information that will be provided in recognition of the MOD’s
    duty of care to the deceased’s family.

    The administration fee of £30 will be waived for applications from those who were the
    spouse or civil partner of the subject at the time of death (or parent if there was no spouse
    or civil partner).


    So from the link at the top, select the General Enquirers form and you will also need a service specific form (Army or Navy or RAF)

    Application part 1 form:
    General enquirer's form (v6.1) (PDF, 99KB, 2 pages) or
    General enquirer's form
    (v6.1) (MS Word Document, 134KB)
    Application part 2 forms:
    Royal Navy/Royal Marines part 2 (PDF, 98.8KB, 1 page) or
    Royal Navy/Royal Marines part 2 (MS Word Document, 50.5KB)
    British Army part 2 (PDF, 19.5KB, 1 page) or
    British Army part 2 (MS Word Document, 43KB)
    Royal Air Force part 2 (PDF, 24.1KB, 1 page) or
    Royal Air Force part 2 (MS Word Document, 46KB)
    When complete send both Application Part 1 (Next of Kin or General Enquirer’s form) and the appropriate Application Part 2 (Service-specific search form) to the address provided on the Service-specific search form.
    Further information about service records held by MOD
    Information held by MOD on Royal Navy (RN), Royal Marines (RM), British Army, Royal Air Force (RAF) service records and Home Guard records.
    Royal Navy and Royal Marine service records
    The RN Disclosure Cell holds service records for commissioned and non-commissioned officers (both RN and RM) from 1926 onwards. Information from these records can be requested under the MOD Publication Scheme.
    Records prior to 1926, including records for World War 1 service, are held by the National Archives.
    British Army service records
    The Army Personnel Centre Historical Disclosures Section holds army service records for officers whose service ended after April 1922 and soldiers whose service ended after January 1921. Information from these records can be requested under the MOD Publication Scheme.
    RAF service records
    The RAF Disclosures section holds service records for non-commissioned and commissioned RAF personnel dating back to 1920. Information from these records can be requested under the MOD Publication Scheme.
    Service records that reflect World War 1 service only are held by the National Archives.
    Published 9 November 2016
    Last updated 22 March 2019 + show all updates
    Contents


    TD
     
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  9. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    Findmypast (and any other similar websites) have very limited access to service information post WW1 as it is still held by the Army Records Office, they have casualty lists and some Artillery records and other bits (but they are just picking at the edges of someones service) - the fact you are getting no hits just means he isn't covered in any of the record sets that are available - this is normal for WW2 soldiers. To get full WW2 records you need to apply as per the above replies
     
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  10. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

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  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Service records can only be obtained from the MOD via the forms as mentioned above. If he survived the war, without injury, without capture, without being killed, and without being sent to other places (Palestine for example) after the war then he will unlikely appear in any online records

    TD
     
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  12. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all the tips! Without wanting to seem ungrateful however, given the fact that I am not a relative, it seems applying for his records doesn't make much sense:
    • I know his name and service number;
    • I have his medals;
    • I know which regiment he joined (KOSB) and which one he got posted to later on (DLI);
    • I am pretty sure I know his battalion (6 DLI);
    • Before applying I should get to know his full name and date of birth (which I wouldn't know where to find anyway).
    Then, after applying (assuming he passed away less then 25 year ago, which seems most likely), I will only get the following information (which, apart form rank and date of joining and leaving the army, is nothing I did not already know anyway...):

    upload_2020-1-26_13-50-52.png

    So, unless anyone on this forum comes up with additional information, I guess: :surr:
     
  13. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Decided to change the name of this thread to include KOSB, hoping that people both interested in DLI and KOSB may help me in my search for information on J. Robson (3191213)...
     
  14. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    How do you know the medals belonged to J Robson 3191213?

    I know you believe they are his medals but have you got the provenance to go with them? His service records will give you proof who he served with and his medal entitlement...
     
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  15. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    If he died less than 25 years ago you will at least get his time line of service if over 5 years you will get a time line of service plus training
    Plus you will know if you have the correct medals

    Dont forget some family members cobble together medal racks based on family here-say or myth which could be incorrect
     
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  16. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    That's true. The medal sheet however is also with the box, and the box is sufficiently thick to contain six medals (I believe they came in different sizes). All in all I do not really have doubts. Still, you have convinced me to try and get his record. So, now, before I can do so: how do I find his full name and date of birth???
     
  17. 8RB

    8RB Well-Known Member

    Will I get his time line of service? That would be very good to know! Given the text on the "gov.uk" website, I thought I would not. Now all I need to know is his full name and date of birth, in order to apply for his records...
     
  18. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    What level of line of service would you get? would it give Battalions? when it says Regiment would it only give first/last or all he passed through? if it gives all would it show when he moved between Battalions? I have never got Army records under the 25 years so wasn't sure if you would get anything useful - I got my Great Uncles RAF info and with him being less than 25 years it was useless - I was hoping at the very least for a Squadron number to give me an in to research but nothing that narrowed down his service beyond.

    As well as family cobbling together medals a lot of families had a few people serving and over the years when people tidy up they lump all "army stuff" together
     
  19. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    I didnt search on DLI listings I used his army number which would have showed whatever regiment he was with `had` he been a casualty.
    As Steve pointed out 16th DLI never served in NWE and finished the War in Italy (but did move to Austria immediate postwar) Pte Robson may have served with numerous battalions or regiments after the KOSB . Only his service records will tell for sure you will have to use his service number but you still need a date /proof of death?. The only fact is his enlistment unit everything else we are assuming from his associated militaria.

    Kyle
     
  20. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Yes you will

    Below the first time I sent for my fathers records 43 years ago i got the below

    posted 431st searchlight battery 60th searchlight regiment 16/9/40
    posted to 11th AA driver training regiment 29/12/41
    posted 8th AA reserve regiment 21/3/42
    posted to 116th AA regiment 30/3/42
    posted to 92nd light AA regiment 20/12/44
    posted to light AA & coast wing depot 8/1/46
    posted to 12th light AA holding battalion 24/1/46
    released to royal army reserve 16/4/46
    I re applied in 2009 and received a comprehensive hand written/typed time line with more detail
    Ie being docked pay for damage to gov property plus his injury etc

    This was followed by Andy getting me the war diaries
     

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