Kilts and the BEF 1940

Discussion in '1940' started by Owen, Sep 15, 2006.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    lol, Mines bigger than your's ;)
     
  2. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Hope your not looking up his kilt matey !!!!
     
  3. MBrockway

    MBrockway Junior Member

    Here's an officer at least:
    "Captain Donald W Roy, a Cameron Highlander of Number 2 Commando, who was educated at Fettes College in Edinburgh and who fought that day in his Cameron kilt, as did Private T McCormack and a number of others."


    As 51Highland has said higher up, the Liverpool Scottish wore the Forbes tartan, not the Cameron of Erracht of the QOCH.

    Both Roy and McCormack were Liverpool Scottish attached to the QOCH and serving in No 2 Commando.

    Does anyone know whether they would still have worn the Forbes at St Nazaire in 1942?

    None of the photos I have of Tom are clear enough to make out the tartan conclusively.
    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I thought this one was too good not too post-especially the chap doing the two footed jump/landing
    [​IMG]
    Caption reads:
    Kilted warriors defending their rights against trouser tyrants or a fierce Scottish Regiment in WW I?
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    One from the Raid on St. Nazaire (Op Chariot)

    [​IMG]
     
  6. MBrockway

    MBrockway Junior Member

    One from the Raid on St. Nazaire (Op Chariot)



    :poppy: Tom McCormack :poppy:

    2930404, 1st (Liverpool Scottish) Bn., Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders and 5 (Scottish) Troop, No 2 Commando.

    Died aged 25 on 11th April 1942 of wounds sustained at St Nazaire on 28th March 1942.

    Son of Jeremiah and Joanna McCormack, of Allerton, Liverpool.


    Remembered with honour.

    McCormack T, No2 Commando - grave marker.jpg

    Mark
     
  7. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    God love the poor lad , one of the most moving images from WW2 you will ever see.
     
  8. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    That is definately Forbes tartan in the photo.
     
  9. MBrockway

    MBrockway Junior Member

    Folks,
    I thought it might be nice to see a picture of Tom McCormack in happier days:
    Tom McCORMACK - 5 Troop, No 2 Commando, Dumfries 1941 - .jpg
    (Picture courtesy of Pete Rogers)

    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  10. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Thanks Mark.

    These threads have caused me intense contemplation this evening. He must have needed great strength to cope with those injuries and the isolation that they caused.

    The impression that I have from all of these pictures is of a group of men in top physical condition who went to do a job that needed doing without any trace of arrogance and neither of self-pity.
     
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    To be honest I had to bite my lip this morning looking at that photo.
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    That photo in post #18.
    I've just seen a larger version of it in a book & saw that the chap on the far left is also in a kilt.
    Never noticed that when I posted the picture before.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    As this seems to be the general Kilts thread now - From the Eccentricity thread:
    The 90th Panzergrenadier Division was led in 1943-44 by the eccentric Ernst Baade. He defended the Cassino Front during the first phase of the battle with great skill. His troops loved his foibles, such as going into battle wearing a Scottish plaid kilt, or radioing his American opponents across the line to wish them a Happy New Year.
    Mention of him also carrying the Broadsword here:
    Motor Books - Rommel's Desert Commanders: The Men Who Served the Desert Fox, North Africa, 1941-42 (Publication date, February 2009)
    Be interesting if any pictures of him kitted out as such survive.
     
  14. idler

    idler GeneralList

    I've heard a story that the kilt that Ogilvy wore partly contributed to his death. Apparently he had been wounded and was wading across a river, and the weight of the kilt dragged him under.

    This may be untrue, as I heard it from a fairly indirect source.

    Capt Ogilvie is, I believe, the 'Captain Z' mentioned throughout Louis Hagen's Arnhem Lift. The book describes them setting off together to swim the Neder Rijn, though Hagen himself doesn't make the claim about the kilt.

    On a lighter note, is it significant that kilts were worn by glider troops and not paras?
     
  15. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    On a lighter note, is it significant that kilts were worn by glider troops and not paras?

    ...and by the troops manning periscopes on the Maginot line rather than those guarding above ?:)
     
  16. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    ...and by the troops manning periscopes on the Maginot line rather than those guarding above ?:)

    Those same troops were also on the surface, 1st Cameron Highlanders.!! Albeit digging to get below ground.!!
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Lovely shots here from November 1939 of Argyll's in trews.
    [​IMG]

    DESCRIPTION: Men of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, 51st Highland Division, trying on gas masks, November 1939.FURTHER INFORMATION: 7th or 8th Battalion, Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, 154th Infantry Brigade, 51st Highland Division

    [​IMG]
    DESCRIPTION: Men of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, 51st Highland Division, during bayonet practice, November 1939.
     
  18. urqh

    urqh Senior Member

    I look at the bayonet one and wander how we lost in France...they scare me.....but then I look at the one above it and I can understand again...good job jerry had a sense of humour.
     
  19. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Those same troops were also on the surface, 1st Cameron Highlanders.!! Albeit digging to get below ground.!!

    It seems those trenches were being dug 70 years ago to the day come the 12th .

    Men of 1st Battalion Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders constructing trenches at Aix, 12 November 1939.
    [​IMG]


    Men of the 1st Battalion Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders marching into a blockhouse at Aix, 12 November 1939.
    [​IMG]

    Men of the 1st Battalion Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders man a Bren gun inside a blockhouse at Aix, 12 November 1939.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    From The Times, January 24, 1940:

    HOUSE OF COMMONS
    Tuesday, Jan. 23
    The Speaker took the Chair at a quarter to 3 o'clock.

    WITHDRAWAL OF THE KILT
    Mr. Oliver Stanley, Secretary of State for War (Westmorland, U.), replying to Lieutenant-Colonel Sir T. Moore (Ayr Burgh, U.) and Mr. Henderson Stewart (Fife, E., L.Nat.), who asked about the withdrawal of the kilt from Scottish regiments, said: -
    The present position is that, for technical reasons largely connected with the possible use of gas by the enemy, the kilt will not be worn in a theatre of war or for training, but will be replaced by battle dress. For walking out, however, all ranks in possession of the kilt may wear it until worn out, but no further issues will be made during the war except to pipers and drummers.

    It has been decided not to maintain a supply because the raw materials and necessary manufacturing capacity must be devoted to the supply of dress actually to be used in war in present conditions. The stock of kilts in hand is 12,229, and 12,684 remain to be delivered by manufacturers under existing contracts. This stock would be quite inadequate to meet further issues for walking-out purposes on the scale anticipated. Moreover, the dissipation of this stock during war-time would make it impossible to fulfil the pledge that has been given that the kilt will be available for ceremonial and walking-out purposes after the war. Should the position alter at any time in the future, I should be prepared to look into the matter again.
     

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