Hello, There was an Officer called Ogilvey, I think, at Arnhem. He was in the Recon. Corps. Both him and his batman landed in there kilts, from Gliders, and wore them throughout the action. Also, various pipers wore there kilts for the crossing of the Rhine. Regards, Stewart
Stewart, See photo in my post #18 of Ogilvie. Cheers O There are a few spellings of the "Ogilvy" name in these posts. I thought that Lord Airlie who was the Queens Chamberlain was in the Scots Guards and in Germany in 1945. (age 19) I follow the Ogilvy name as my daughter is named Airlie. (Long story) Does anyone know what unit he was in?
There are a few spellings of the "Ogilvy" name in these posts. I thought that Lord Airlie who was the Queens Chamberlain was in the Scots Guards and in Germany in 1945. (age 19) Do you mean Sir David George Patrick Coke Ogilvy, 8th Earl of Airlie? thePeerage.com - Walter Francis John Montagu Douglas Scott, 11th Duke of Queensberry and others (scroll down) Sir David George Patrick Coke Ogilvy, 8th Earl of Airlie was born on 17 May 1926...He gained the rank of Captain in the service of the 2nd Battalion, Scots Guards. He fought in the Second World War in 1945, in Germany. He held the office of Aide-de-Camp to the Commander-in-Chief and High Commissioner to Austria between 1947 and 1948
Do you mean Sir David George Patrick Coke Ogilvy, 8th Earl of Airlie? thePeerage.com - Walter Francis John Montagu Douglas Scott, 11th Duke of Queensberry and others (scroll down) Yes Kyt that is the one. Do we know what part of the Scots Guards he was attached to in Germany?
2 Scots Guards were with 201st Guards Bde in Italy. In 1945 they went to Germany to join Gds Armd Div. Scots Guards (1914) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2 Scots Guards were with 201st Guards Bde in Italy. In 1945 they went to Germany to join Gds Armd Div. Scots Guards (1914) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Look through Scots Guards' noted members and he was not listed (Stirling etc) however I did find him here: TROOPING THE COLOUR (1947-2005) (Spelling is as per the programmes) Year Escort Scots Guards Input With Details Of Officers (From 1947) and Warrant Officers (From 1956) 1947 2CG Capt HH Houldsworth, Col HL Graham, MC, Lt Col The Viscount Dalrymple, MBE, Capt AID Fletcher 2SG: 7 GuardMaj AD Hamilton, Lt FR Taylor, Lt CJ Fyfe-Jamieson 8 GuardCapt ARG Stevenson, MC, Lt J MacDonald-Buchanan, MC, Lt MPJ de Klee 1948 2SG Parade Cancelled. Bad weather forecast. Turned out fine. Would have been:- Capt HH Houldsworth, Maj PF Fane–Gladwin, Maj AE Cameron, MC, Lt Col The Viscount Dalrymple, MBE, Capt PEG Balfour. 2SG: Escort Maj AD Hamilton, Lt Lord Ogilvy, 2Lt Hon. AJB Ogilvy 2 Guard Capt JM Gow, Lt GS Nickerson, 2Lt JD Hamilton-Dalrymple 3 Guard Maj DS Robertson, Lt ON Priaulx, 2Lt Viscount Stuart.
Love this picture. Not in action as such. NA 16084 An Italian woman inspects the kilts of Pipe Major William MacConnachie and Pipe Major William Boyd in the Colosseum of Rome, 6 June 1944
Love this picture. Not in action as such. NA 16084 An Italian woman inspects the kilts of Pipe Major William MacConnachie and Pipe Major William Boyd in the Colosseum of Rome, 6 June 1944 MMMMMMMMMMM, I could make a couple of lovely little vests for my son out of that!
Hello, There was an Officer called Ogilvey, I think, at Arnhem. He was in the Recon. Corps. Both him and his batman landed in there kilts, from Gliders, and wore them throughout the action. Also, various pipers wore there kilts for the crossing of the Rhine. Regards, Stewart I've heard a story that the kilt that Ogilvy wore partly contributed to his death. Apparently he had been wounded and was wading across a river, and the weight of the kilt dragged him under. This may be untrue, as I heard it from a fairly indirect source.
This will be him then. Didn't know he'd been killed. CWGC :: Casualty Details Name:OGILVIE, JAMES GRAEME Initials:J G Nationality:United Kingdom Rank:Captain Regiment/Service:Glider Pilot Regiment, A.A.C. Age:26 Date of Death:26/09/1944 Service No:140041 Additional information:Son of James Tough Ogilvie and Mary Isobel Ogilvie; husband of Sadie Mary Ogilvie, of Southborough, Tunbridge Wells, Kent. Casualty Type:Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference:Plot 27. Row C. Grave 12. Cemetery:RHENEN GENERAL CEMETERY
Just seen this photo, I see the 2nd BEF took their kilts with them too. Stretcher bearers of the 1st Glasgow Highlanders, 52nd Lowland Division in France, 13 June 1940.
Not being critical, just seeking information. I can understand the espirit de corps aspects of the wearing of national clothing. How utlitarian were the kilts when compared to trousers? I would think the noticeable disadvantages of the kilt would outway their usefulness as combat apparel. They certainly would have the problems with general protection of the skin from small scrapes, etc and I would think deep snow would present problems better handled by legged clothing. The loss of pockets could present problems, although I would think this is a minor inconvenience. Explain it to the Septic.
Think of the boost to morale and esprit de corps from wearing the traditional garment though Jeff. "Cold is it? Well I'm Ok and I'm wearing a skirt!" QED: 'We are the hardest men here . Pockets is a good thought, surely they had pockets? The blokes above seem to have a large pocket in their aprons.
Veteran I knew in Canadian Black Watch, 42nd Bn CEF, in WW1 said they were horrible. They got wet & muddy and froze in winter and rubbed his legs raw. Once they were wet they were heavier to wear than having wet trousers. In a WW2 context, also believe there were difficulties in anti-gas protection with wearing a kilt .
From Churchill's Sacrifice Of The Highland Division by Saul David. In September 1939 , it had been decided by the War Office that kilts....were not suited to increased mecanisation of modern warfare, and afforded no practical protection against gas attack. Accordingly , each Highland battalion was ordered to hand in their kilts before embarking, although many officers retained theirs in their kit bags, as did the pipe bands. The 1st Gordons had embarked for France in September just before the order to hand in kilts was issued. It was not until December that instructions to switch to battle dress finally caught up with them, but Saul David says few of its men were sad to see the back of the kilt. During the later months of 1939 they had spent much time digging anti-tank defences still in their kilts, mud caked kilts caused terrible sores. In was found impractical to wear a kilt in a lorry, or Bren carrier and even worse on a motorbike. The 5th Gordons a TA unit were so annoyed at losing their kilts they had a parade at Bordon in January 1940 before going to France. Their CO ceremonially burnt a kilt saying the English had wanted to take away the kilt from the Scots and now they had succeeded. As mentioned before 1st Camerons went into battle wearing their kilts, some photos have already been posted, there are more of them in the After The Battle book, Blitzkreig In The West.
From Churchill's Sacrifice Of The Highland Division by Saul David. The 5th Gordons a TA unit were so annoyed at losing their kilts they had a parade at Bordon in January 1940 before going to France. Their CO ceremonially burnt a kilt saying the English had wanted to take away the kilt from the Scots and now they had succeeded. Can you just imagine the stench of a burning kilt.. Ooh.. Bless you.
Here's an officer at least: "Captain Donald W Roy, a Cameron Highlander of Number 2 Commando, who was educated at Fettes College in Edinburgh and who fought that day in his Cameron kilt, as did Private T McCormack and a number of others." The Scots at War Trust | The St Nazaire Raid 1942 Seems to be often referred to as the last wearing of the kilt in action but pictures in this thread appear to give the lie to that. There's a picture of Tom McCormack of 5 Troop, No 2 Commando in his kilt on the excellent Commando Veterans Association website here: Tom McCormack (courtesy of Peter Rogers). There's also a picture of Captain Donald Roy in his kilt in the centre of the 5 Troop group photo in the same Gallery (also courtesy of Peter Rogers). Both of these men did indeed wear the kilt into battle at the St Nazaire Raid on 27/28 March 1942. Tom McCormack was fatally wounded in action and died in captivity several days later. There are German National Archive images available on the web showing a badly wounded Tom McCormack in his kilt being loaded onto the flatbed of a truck in his kilt for evacuation to hospital. However I am not going to post them here. I understand Captain Roy went to some lengths to get special permission for wearing of the kilt for any of the men in 5 Troop who wished to uphold the tradition. 5 Troop in No 2 Commando was largely made up from men from the Liverpool Scottish TA battalion of the QOCH and was known as 5 (Scottish) Troop. Cheers, Mark
There's a rather good picture in Op Market Garden of a British Officer in a Kilt near Arhnem. He's standing at a cross roads with some Jeeps.....I think he's a Captain. And five minutes later.... Here you go......PS It's not from After the Battle before anyone moans Captain Ogilvie of the Glider Pilot Regiment (who landed in his kilt) during Operation Market Garden on 18 September 1944. Ogilvie was one of many Glider pilots killed in this operation. Thanks to Wiki Cheers
