JUNO BEACH.

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Trux, Jan 1, 2014.

  1. Hello Xavier,

    LST 155 just doesn't exist. It was part of a group (LST 142 to LST 156) whose production was cancelled on 16 Sept 42.

    This '155' is a typo for the serial 1552 which carried Maj EM Wilson and a party of FGH troops & equipment.

    Serial 1552 was HMLST 160 of 4 LST Flotilla (Assault Group J3).

    What exactly would you like to know about this ship or the FGH party?

    Michel
     
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  2. PRADELLES

    PRADELLES Well-Known Member

    Hey Michel (Bonjour...),

    I research information about the 249th Field Coy RE, to write a little story about his campaign in Normandy. It was an airborne engineer company, who landed at Juno Beach. In his war diary, just the LST160 was mentionned.

    Do you have any information about this unit ?
    Do you know at what time LST155 and LST160 landed ?

    Thank you in advance for your help,

    Xavier

    PS : Si mon anglais est vraiment mauvais, n'hésite pas à m'en informer...
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
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  3. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Xavier,

    Michel is saying that what the Zuehlke book calls LST 155 is actually LST 160. 155 is a typo (mistake) for 1552 which was the serial for LST 160. I'm not sure though if the 20 foot trailer and tractor that went overboard during loading belonged to 249th Field Coy RE? Good find by the way!

    Regards ...
     
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  4. Cee is correct. Serial 1552 was carried by LST hull number 160.

    I've posted what I could find on 249 Fd Coy RE (Airborne) on Xavier's thread here:
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/58276-249th-field-company-re-on-d-day-and-battle-of-normandy/?p=681090

    I suppose this incident is related in the Zuehlke book (which I do not have)?

    Is this a 20-foot or a 20-ton trailer?

    There where many types of trailers on board Serial 1552, including two Jahn trailers towed by bulldozers (probably not the one), and two "Trailers 20 Ton" towed by "Tractors Scammel" on the Tank Deck, all belonging to 59 Mechanical Equipment Section RE, plus a horde of 10 cwt trailers on the Main Deck.

    Would the Scammel + 20-ton trailer combination match the description?

    Michel
     
  5. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Michel,

    Sorry that should have been 20 ton. The "Scammel + 20-ton trailer combination" sounds right.

    "Not everything proceeded without mishap. When engineers started backing a group of heavily loaded twenty-ton trailers aboard LST155 on June 3, one gathered such momentum going down the ramp that the eight-wheeled monstrosity plunged overboard with its tractor dragged helplessly along. Although much of the equipment was damaged, nobody was injured."

    So not a vehicle and trailer belonging to the Airborne Engineers.

    Thanks ...
     
  6. PRADELLES

    PRADELLES Well-Known Member

    About the Seaborne of the 6th Airborne, some unit landed at NAN, but they not appearing on the Landing Tables found for Juno :

    398th Company Composite, RASC.
    (http://www.pegasusarchive.org/normandy/war_398coy.htm)
    "1st June 1944
    Comp Pl. leave Camp A.5. and proceed to Southampton where they embark.
    6th June 1944
    1215 - Comp Pl. land on "NAN" beach. The landing craft hit an enemy mine very near the shore. There were no cas. Landing was thus delayed one hr."

    -How many were they to embark ?

    6th Airborne Divisional Signals.
    (http://www.pegasusarchive.org/normandy/war_signals.htm)
    "3rd June 1944
    Capt McMaster, Capt Westwood and 37 ORs embarked at SOUTHAMPTON."

    -When did they land ?

    6th Airborne Divisional Ordnance Field Park, RAOC.
    (http://www.pegasusarchive.org/normandy/war_6raoc.htm)
    "1st June 1944
    Embarked on LSI/J.30. Strength of party 1 off 9 O.Rs. (Det 2).
    6th June 1944
    Early at 0400 hrs the assault tps of 3 Cdn Div who were on ship left boat at 0630 hrs. Ord party left at 1100 hrs to arrive on beach H+4 (1145 B hrs). Landing, almost [?], satisfactory 9 OR collect Beach NAN - STAR area. Proceeded to sub-area ARCHIE & dug in. Remained all night."

    -Where is the "Det 1" ? What is its strength ?

    Xavier
     
  7. wolflyn

    wolflyn Junior Member

    would you have any information on any of the Light vessels (lightships) that were stationed during the Operation
    the detailed information in this topic refers to a TH lightship that was stationed to mark the centre of Area Z as the operation progressed.
    the following two light vessels are refered to by Trinity house being on station marking the approaches to the Mulberry Harbours
    TH LV68 KANSAS
    Th LV72 JUNO
    this lightships is refered to on the Thames Tugs website
    AL-28 being towed from Selsey to UTAH beach
    additionaly From the book, Passport not required, U.S> volunteers in the Royal Navy. 1939-1941
    HM LST 198 followed her channel markers to a light ship with the code name of “target beach”
    another book, Not Me! The World War II Memoir of a Reluctant Rifleman, has a reference to a lightship possibily being marked as UTAH
    can anyone shed some light on these or other lightships ?
    LV72 Juno still survives -https://www.facebook.com/groups/787159187984566/?fref=ts
     
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  8. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    This interests me but I have not got very far with the details. I will tell what little I know.

    The large amount of shipping which daily crossed the Channel in both directions needed careful control and assistance with navigation. When developed the system had two wide swept channels which ran from Area Z off the Isle of Wight to a line ten miles off the Normandy coast. The centre of Area Z was marked by a Trinity House lightship which I have not identified. Channel 14 was created by widening the D Day Channels 1 to 4. This was for the use of shipping for the US beaches and terminated at the seawards edge of sea area Kansas. This was ten miles off the boundary between Omaha and Utah beaches. Trinity House lightship 68 marked this point. Channel 58 was formed by widening Channels 5 to 8 and terminated on the seaward edge of sea area Juno, ten miles of Courseulles. This was marked by Trinity House lightship 72. Channel were marked with large buoys.

    Inshore of these lightships control was in the hands of the Naval Officers in Charge of each beach and Mulberry.

    AL is the USN code for Auxiliary, Lightship. These are very elusive creatures and I have found nothing about them.

    Trinity House light ships were painted red and bore their names in large white letters, Juno and Kansas. They also flashed a light of course.

    Mike
     
  9. Noel Burgess

    Noel Burgess Senior Member

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  10. D-DayDodger

    D-DayDodger Member

    The Lightships get the briefest of mentions in Winser's book "The D-Day Ships":

    Lightships -
    JUNO ex Thames: positioned 18th
    KANSAS ex Thames: positioned 18th
     
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  11. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    Does anyone know the battery affiliations for the Canadian Artillery on Juno Bach.

    A battery provided a battery commanders party and some FOO parties for an infantry battalion.

    It is possible to work out from the loading lists which regiment from 12 and 13 Canadian Field Regiments supported I know the names of the battery commanders, but which batteries from...

    12 Cdn Fd Regt supported the Royal Winnipeg Rifles?.
    13 Cdn Fd Regt Regina Rifles,
    ??? " Canadian Scottish

    8th Cdn Inf Bde:

    19 Cdn Fd Regt supported the North Shore Regiment
    14 Cdn Fd " Queens Own Rifles of C
    19 Cdn Fd " La Regiment de la Chaudiere:
     
  12. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    The landing tables do not identify the battery from which FOO come, only the regiment. On other beaches it did change through the day as the follow up battalions moved forward.

    Mike
     
  13. I'm not sure that arty support for the landing was planned all the way down to battery level. Everything points to a Fd Regt-to-Inf Bn allotment for the assault Bns, then a Arty Gp-to-Inf Bde allotment. For example, the various orders show the following 'groupings':

    12 Fd (SP) Regt R Wpg Rif - MIKE RED (with u/c C Coy 1 C Scot R - MIKE GREEN)
    13 Fd (SP) Regt Regina Rif - NAN GREEN
    14 Fd (SP) Regt QOR of C - NAN WHITE
    19 Fd (SP) Regt N Shore R - NAN RED

    Strangely enough, RM Armd Sp Gp batteries are individually alloted to assaulting coys, whereas Fd Regt Btys are not...

    The reserve Inf Bns would then be supported, together with the assaulting Bns, by their brigade's respective Arty Gp as follows:
    7 Cdn Inf Assault Bde Gp with u/c for the Landing only 12 Cdn (Sp) Fd Regt Arty Gp (incl 13 Cdn (SP) Fd Regt)
    8 Cdn Inf Assault Bde Gp with u/c for the Landing only 14 Cdn (Sp) Fd Regt Arty Gp (incl 19 Cdn (SP) Fd Regt)

    Finally, still "for the Landing only", 9 Cdn Inf Assault Bde Gp would benefit from the support of 12, 13, 14 & 19 Cdn Fd Regt RCA FOOs and have under command HQ RCA 3 Cdn Inf Div.

    I do not think that one battery supported one and only one inf coy, if only because the numbers of assaulting coys and that of arty btys do not match.

    Michel
     
  14. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    The contemporary practice was to assign a battery to work with a battalion, their direct support battalion. That did not mean they could only use their own battery, as the magic of artillery C2 gave them access to the firepower assembled on D Day. It just meant that the Battery Commander and his two Troop commanders would be a familiar part of the battalion group team.

    The Regimental war diaries of the Canadian artillery regiments name the Forward Observation Officers with most companies, but not their parent battery, nor do they mention the battery commanders or battery affiliation. This is different to the way this is recorded for artillery supporting the British assault battalions, where the BC landed with the CO of the infantry battalion.

    The assault battalions which made the initial assault on D Day had four FOO parties plus an FOB and BC's party. I had expected to find additional FOOs assigned to each supplement the BC and FOO parties.
     
  15. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    Clever chaps the gunners. I have the list of FOO teams for 195 Brigade on Sword. For their final advance the Brigade Operational Order assigned each battalion a battery commander, three FOO teams and a FOB. 7 Field Regiment had to 'borrow' two FOO from another regiment to do it.

    No names are given only battery.

    Mike
     
  16. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    Trux,

    That is what I was expecting to see in the Canadian records. Juggling the FOOs was an issue fpor each of the assaulting formations. 50 Div had probably the worst problem because they were assaulting with two brigades up and with only three SP regiments in the assault.
     
  17. gpo son

    gpo son Senior Member

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  18. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

  19. wolflyn

    wolflyn Junior Member

    thanks for the replies about the light vessels used during the operations much appreciated
     
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  20. wolflyn

    wolflyn Junior Member

    just to add to what I found on AL-28,,,,, reclassified as ATO-24 on 13 April Kewaydin joined the Normandy invasion, departing Selsey England 8 June, she towed lightship AL-28 to UTAH beach at St Laurent France
     
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