June 6th footage...........

Discussion in 'Books, Films, TV, Radio' started by m kenny, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

  2. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

  3. heidi xx

    heidi xx Discharged

    One falls alone on the beach after being struck by a German bullet, which can be seen splashing into the surf after passing through the soldier.
    How they managed to captured this? Did they have Zoom on cameras back in those days?

    Wow, just shows us how real WWII, its not a funny issue.
     
  4. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    How they managed to captured this? Did they have Zoom on cameras back in those days?

    Wow, just shows us how real WWII, its not a funny issue.

    They didn't have zoom lenses. but usually two or three 'prime' or fixed lenses of varying focal length on a 'turret' on the front of the camera which rotated into place - a wide angle, a standard and a long lens, which was a 'telephoto type. This:
    Vinten Model K Mk1 "Normandy" | Imperial War Museums
    was typical of the types of camera used.

    When I started as a clapper loader, plenty of people used turret lenses with prime lenses - the quality was better than zoom lenses - the glass in them is static and doesn't have to move inside the lens tube.
     
  5. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    Bell & Howell, single-lens, 35mm motion picture film camera, the Eyemo 71. This type of camera was used exclusively in World War II by the Canadian Army Film and Photo Unit

    In Search of a Combat Camera by Dale Gervais

    chuck_ross_camera.jpg

    norm_single_lens_eyemo_thmb.jpg
     
  6. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Some great scenes there!

    It's hard to get an idea of who shot what with the way the chalk boards are scattered throughout. Those of the commandos on the landing craft, at the beach and heading inland were probably captured by Ian Grant No. 5 AFPU who was attached to them for a time. The panoramas of the gliders on the LZ are also interesting. Possibly taken by Sgt Grant's colleague, Sgt Norman Clague, who was later killed at Amfreville.

    From the IWM:

    "The grave of Sgt Norman Clague, a cameraman serving with No 5 Army Film and Photographic Unit who was killed in action at Amfreville on 12 June 1944. Sgt Clague had covered the D Day landings on 6 June 1944 and was the first AFPU official photographer to be killed in North West Europe."

    Regards ...
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    A few of the shots showing troops having difficulty leaving an LCA and another struggling down a LSI ramp with a bicycle give an idea of the amount of equipment these soldiers carried. I take it these films are from second wave or later as the troops (except the Omaha shots) do not seem to be under fire and some of the beach shots seem remarkably relaxed.
     
  8. BottyWWFC

    BottyWWFC Member

    The scenes with the LSIs look a bit of a mess..... Either the ramps have been dropped badly or (as I suspect) a strong tide has washed them aside. The troops dragging their bikes through the water look none too pleased with the situation either.

    My other nit-pick is with the troops dug-in along the tree-line. Considering they seem to be taking shelter from a very specific threat the camera man is standing very openly in an extremely vulnerable position, in full view of the threat from which they are sheltering from. Always a subject of great suspicion for me when viewing supposedly "genuine" battle footage.

    Lots of good stuff there though. The best collection of footage I have seen this year was from the DVD shown in the foyer of Arromanches 360. Extremely graphic, very captivating and emotional, plus it left you no doubt that that WW2 in general and Overlord in particular was not something to make light of.
     
  9. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    I must say having looked into landing craft for a while I have never quite understood the concept of the LSI.
    LCTs and LSTs I get – the former landing relatively small numbers of tanks (up to 11 Shermans for the LCT3) by bow ramps on shallow shelving beaches, hopefully avoiding sand bars a distance from the beach. The latter landing larger numbers of tanks by bow door and landing ramp, although still suffering from the sand bar problem – perhaps more so due to their deeper draught. Of course both could land mixed loads of other vehicles and troops.
    Sand bars are a major problem as if the vessel grounds the cargo can be dropped into deeper water inshore of the sand bar. Beach surveys should have minimised this problem. See image LSI1 below, where the LSI appears to have dropped troops into deep water.

    LSIs however seem to suffer the same potential problem of the deeper draught of the LST without the advantage of the tank ramp. They rely on two narrow (and sometimes steep) ‘pedestrian’ ramps that can completely halt the disembarkation if an unfortunate soldier struggles with his load. See image LSI2 where, whilst in shallow water, the unfortunate soldier has blocked one of the landing ramps. The flimsy troop ramps also seem to have suffered from the possible currents or longshore drift referred to by Botty in post #8.

    Of course an LSI could carry a larger number of troops than a LCT and therefore the same force could be landed from a fewer number of vessels and avoid beach congestion. The troops could travel in greater comfort than on a LCT type vessel and, arguably, be fitter on landing due to the improved comfort afforded but the difficulty in disembarking still seems to me to be a major flaw in this type of vessel.

    I suppose what I am saying is that I feel the effort put into designing and manufacturing LSIs could perhaps have been better spent in producing more LCT and LST type vessels and using them for troop or mixed vehicle and troop landings.
    There is always a counter argument and in this case I guess it might be that LSIs were merely adapted small coastal vessels fitted with ramps and therefore cheap and easy to produce.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    [​IMG]


    There is a sequence in the film which seems to be St Aubin and appears in the B Series from B5225 onwards

    [​IMG]


    B5225

    [​IMG]






    B5226 or B5227
    [​IMG]

    B5228
    [​IMG]

    B5229 probably
    [​IMG]
     
  11. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hi,
    All of the footage showing the Landing Craft Infantry(Small) was filmed at Sword Beach.

    The LCI(S) were under fire on the run in and while on the beach. There were casualties to their crews and the Commandos.

    Landing times for the LCI(S) were supposed to be between H + 30 minutes and H + 75 minutes.

    The LCI(S) was originally designed as a raiding craft.

    Good footage but the locations and times are all over the place in that film. Some of the footage was shot after the 6th June on the East bank of the Orne I believe.

    Regards

    Danny
     
  12. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Yet another question for our Glider folk ... :)

    I noticed on a couple of gliders in the footage that numbers have been painted over the invasion stripes on the rear fuselage of the Horsas. I'll attach a screen grab of one with what appears to be a 99 on the detached fuselage. Also if you look closely at the very front just under the right cockpit window there is what appears to be a not quite discernible 2 digit number.

    Were chalk numbers painted on the gliders for the D-Day invasion?

    Cheers ...
     

    Attached Files:

  13. GPRegt

    GPRegt Senior Member

    Cee

    Will need to do some research.

    Steve W.
     
  14. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Thanks Steve,

    And just to confound you here's another screen capture from the same video. Although not clear It looks like a number 29 to me. My impression is that several of the gliders may have been painted up in such a way depending on the time available to those assigned to the task.

    Regards ...
     

    Attached Files:

  15. GPRegt

    GPRegt Senior Member

    Cee

    Fascinating stuff!

    I have heard that the invasion stripes on some gliders were barely dry before take-off but I've never seen painted on Chalk Numbers.

    Fact tells me that these are Op Mallard gliders; on Tonga, CN 29, from B Sdn, made it in but 99, from D Sdn, came down in the sea killing all on board. I haven't got a list of Mallard numbers but the MoAF will.

    Steve W.
     
  16. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Steve,

    I never even thought to consider the possibility of CN duplication for the two operations. If there was a number 99 for Mallard that should confirm the landing zone location (LZN?). I'm not sure if the date can be easily pinned. All the chalk boards do give a June 6th date, but with these compilation videos there's always a possibility that scenes from a later time have been added on. It was interesting, nonetheless, to see the troops approaching Glider 99 to unload whatever remained.

    Regards ...
     
  17. GPRegt

    GPRegt Senior Member

    Here's another one; this time it's from Die Deutsche Wochenschau 16.6.1944

    There are other shots of Horsas, but none with Chalk Nos.

    Steve W.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hi,
    I believe the glider footage was filmed on LZ N after the 6th June.

    There is some more footage from this film around but I cannot remember if it is online or on a DVD I have.

    Regards

    Danny
     
  19. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Here's another one; this time it's from Die Deutsche Wochenschau 16.6.1944

    There are other shots of Horsas, but none with Chalk Nos.

    Steve W.

    Interesting - I take it that's another view of the Potts and Jones glider. From a not very thorough search of the Airborne on IWM I came across the following three. The third, of course, shows an AC number (rather than chalk number) which you will often see, though not many are clear enough to make out.

    Danny if your interested in other footage taken by Sgt. Ian Grant see the following threads. But watch out you don't get sucked into the airborne vortex never to emerge ... :p

    Pegasus Bridge - After the War Footage

    Airborne Related Videos Found On British Pathé

    Regards ...
     

    Attached Files:

  20. GPRegt

    GPRegt Senior Member

    The first photo is one I've looked at dozens of times, but never focused on the CN; it proves all those painted over the fuselage sripes are from Mallard; the men are from 1st RUR, but more significantly they are driving away from their glider in daylight.

    Steve W.
     

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