Japanese public awareness of military atrocities

Discussion in 'War Against Japan' started by markos88, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. markos88

    markos88 Junior Member

    I am writing a novel I call Enemy in the Mirror about the Pacific war as seen from both sides.

    Unraveling what the actual awareness of Japanese civilians regarding the brutal tactics of its military is difficult.

    For example, after the infamous Nanking massacre, I note that civilian parades celebrated the "noble" victory without apparent awareness of its ignoble reality. Japan was just a "big brother" that would lead East Asians in sphere of co-prosperity.

    The paradox for me is the seemingly graceful and harmonious culture promulgated in the homeland and the bestial activity of soldiers on foreign fronts.
     
  2. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Without wishing to damage your sales prospects, but in a nutshell how would you reconcile the paradox?

    And welcome to the forum :)
     
  3. markos88

    markos88 Junior Member

    Without wishing to damage your sales prospects, but in a nutshell how would you reconcile the paradox?

    And welcome to the forum :)
    Thanks for welcome ZA. Not sure I can reconcile it - seems out of synch.

    I think whenever you demonize or relegate your enemy to sub-human status, such acts are likely to occur in all cultures. I believe our troops have always committed some atrocities, but atrocity on a grand scale that is condoned from American military commanders seems unlikely.

    Yet we mustn't forget, photos of smiling crowds looking on as Blacks were lynched not long ago or the public condoning the murder of Chinese workers in our culture as well.
     
  4. Peccavi

    Peccavi Senior Member

    I find the whole episode of the Japanese in WW2 very hard to comprehend.

    So many paradoxes. Although on the winning side in Russo-Japanese war and earlier Chinese-Japanese war as well as World War 1, they seemed to be able to cast themselves as The Victims.

    In 1900 their troops were behaving themselves very well but by 1930, they were worse than Genghis Khan's lot.

    They did not really seem to believe that they would win in WW2 either. I get the feeling that it was almost like a collective death wish - if we don't attack the Americans, we will end up as their slaves.

    And now they seem to have persuaded themselves that they were the victims in WW2. I had book given to me a long time ago by a Japanese Company - Facts about Japan. Wish I hadn't thrown it away - cos for under the entry for WW2, there was no mention of Pearl Harbour but plenty about the Bomb.

    Good luck with your book and I hope you decide to do a Non Fiction one which casts more light on this difficult subject. I think that would be very demanding.
     
  5. markos88

    markos88 Junior Member

  6. BuffaloChuck

    BuffaloChuck Junior Member

    Old post, new reply...

    I'd love to hear from Markos if he's still around - a progress report?

    Peccavi's "I get the feeling that it was almost like a collective death wish" is something I've noted for the last decade, with HP Willmott, Richard Franks and Meirion Harries noting much the same.

    John Beatty & a chum collected their essays into this booklet, called "What Were They Thinking? A Fresh Look..." and they offer views as US Army historians.

    All of these authors have offered portions which make me think the Japanese Army (at least) was indeed seeing a dim future for a career in the military, and believed they needed to create a war so they could have some glorious death. And once they got the ball rolling, others seemed to join in, and still others fell into the wake.

    Paying for their 1930s "adventurism" was a problem for a resource-poor island nation that had to import almost everything. Here, friendly relations with Britain, the Dutch, French and Americans paid off as they kept getting more and more credits, more latitude in payments. And like German industrialists, the Japanese uber-money clans kept the arms industry funding going.

    If someone would have pulled the plug in 1932, could Japan have carried on without Western support for those following 8 years? Probably not. Once 1940 hit and serious oil embargos were faced, the Japanese knew Oct-Nov-Dec 1941 was as long as they could wait without getting more oil shipments from the Dutch oilfields, or from the Texas and Calif gasoline refineries.

    But back to the origin point, I remain critical of the Japanese gov't's continued cover-up of their China and WWII behaviors. It's a fascinating juxtaposition to consider how Germany has treated their military's and leaders' behaviors - which seems to be a fairly thorough investigation and public discussion - compared to the Japanese denials and cover-up's.

    MacArthur's regime had quite a bit to do with this, and the Korean War with Soviet and Red Chinese pressures helped create excuses to cover up more and more. But I've never been certain these excuses were necessary. Germany had its own Red Scare issues going on for the same time-periods, yet they marched forward.

    In 2002, the original GOJIRA was re-released in the USA and is available now on DVD. This film had to be written about 1953 (since it was released in early 1954), just a few years after the new Japanese constitution had been in place, giving women the right to vote. Lowly women!! And in this film, there's a townhall scene after Gojira makes one of his first 'attacks' and the town-council has a table full of elder men up front. 1953. The Lowly Women have just been granted "human" status practically.

    And there they are, in full glory, righteous anger and the loudest voices, demanding the Old Men tell them The Truth. (So are plenty of townsmen, too - a large hall, full of shaking fists, angry voices, steely eyes.)

    I actually marvel at that one little scene - that the writers would conceive of a scene where once-lowly women were now leading an angry shouting match against a small town's elder men.

    Where did this scene come from? Where did that energy go? "Let's make money, let's try to bury and forget the past." Well, that only works if everyone agrees to. For the last two years, China's been withholding or making it difficult for Japan's Tech Manufacturer's to gain access to rare-earth minerals, key to Japan's tech future. Disputes over islands between Korea, Mainland China and Taiwan...

    I think Markos' first point of trying to 'reconcile' the past is what Japan's denials and cover-up's have exacerbated for these 60 years.
     
  7. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

  8. martin14

    martin14 Senior Member

    But back to the origin point, I remain critical of the Japanese gov't's continued cover-up of their China and WWII behaviors.


    And they continue to continue.


    Considering the frequency and intensity of the lies told to the public
    during the last nuclear plant crisis, looks like not much has changed.
     
  9. I was at a lecture in London last year when a Japanese lady in the Q&A session literally went nuts, denying Japanese atrocities in Nanking. The audience all sat in shock, not quite believing what they were witnessing. It was both bizarre and uncomfortable.
     
  10. rockape252

    rockape252 Senior Member

    Hi markos88,

    Here's a good place to start your investigations.

    See Alive and safe, the brutal Japanese soldiers who butchered 20,000 Allied seamen in cold blood | Mail Online

    From

    Slaughter At Sea: The Story Of Japan's Naval War Crimes by Mark Felton published by Pen & Sword.

    Quote

    "Felton said: "This kind of behaviour was encouraged under a navy order dated March 20, 1943, which read, 'Do not stop at the sinking of enemy ships and cargoes. At the same time carry out the complete destruction of the crews'."

    In the months after that order, the submarine I-37 sank four British merchant ships and one armed vessel and, in every case, the survivors were machine-gunned in the sea.

    The submarine's commander was sentenced to eight years in prison at a war crimes trial, but was freed three years later when the Japanese government ruled his actions to have been "legal acts of war".


    Regards, Mick D.
     
  11. bugleboy2323

    bugleboy2323 Senior Member

    just watched a documentary 5 mins ago called "Nanking"and Im so upset by what I saw and what I heard.Im74 and it broke my heart to hear these old chinese men and women relate the atrocities what happened to their families.I never knew about this happening, after the war 20 or so were charged with war crimes but 14 of those are still hailed as heroes in japan to day ' I ask you?:mad:
     
  12. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

  13. sherlock

    sherlock Member

    No country is ever eager to admit its own atrocities, but Japan takes that to a new level.
     
  14. Bob Turner

    Bob Turner Senior Member

    When I was at college, we'd go to watch movies put on by and for, different faculties. So a movie for the humanities faculty would also invite psychologists to it. In fact anyone could go in to watch and stay for the talk afterwards.

    At the time Berger's book "Ways of Seeing" was all the rage. Basically, the up shot is, that we read the screen in accordance with a western art traditional canon. Masterful directors could use this to great effect. Chaplin's images often use our expectations to great comic effect and Hitchcock and Godard, used the same techniques to heighten tension. A for instance of this; the shower scene in Psycho, is not nearly as effective if the scene is flipped left to right.

    We had someone show a series of propaganda movies from the Second World War. The Japanese ones left everyone totally perplexed. They looked like anti war movies! First question asked was, did Japanese film directors have a hidden anti war agenda? The lecturer said no, after the war, Hollywood directors were called in to create hearts and minds movies, to counter the Japanese militarist movies. They were shocked to find that they couldn't watch them and see anything that wasn't what they would see as culturally anti war.

    The next question was, then is it down to the Japanese picking up cues from the way the images were loaded, that we were somehow missing?

    What Hollywood decided, was that what did not make these movies anti war, was their inevitability. Yes war is a bestial depraved mess but there's a sense of, do unto others before they can do unto you. This shifts all the blame onto an inhuman enemy. Look how these bastards have forced us to act! We want nothing but peace and harmony, whilst they would have us all dead!

    Very odd logic but I think that's in essence correct.
     
  15. arnhem44

    arnhem44 Member

    I am writing a novel I call Enemy in the Mirror about the Pacific war as seen from both sides.

    Unraveling what the actual awareness of Japanese civilians regarding the brutal tactics of its military is difficult.

    For example, after the infamous Nanking massacre, I note that civilian parades celebrated the "noble" victory without apparent awareness of its ignoble reality. Japan was just a "big brother" that would lead East Asians in sphere of co-prosperity.

    The paradox for me is the seemingly graceful and harmonious culture promulgated in the homeland and the bestial activity of soldiers on foreign fronts.

    Judging the above , I think you need a lot of time investigating many books about this subject before putting a letter on paper.


    There have been a few documentaries about exactly that subject how can the japanese mind/military change from being an acceptable "western" force with similar protocols to such a beastly organisation (in all ranks ..from top to bottom) in a matter of a decade.
    The same thing was asked how could the germans keep on fighting (especially against the western allies) so long and vigorously in 1945 (end of 1944) when clearly all was lost and the quicker surrender to the west "clearly" the better for the germans....

    And the answer was years and years of indoctrination of exactly the young folk that would eventually be the gut soldiers on the front line.
    Of course the hate and disrespect had to be developed by higher echelons who were in control in the 1930's.
    And then it is no surprise that the nazis kept on hammering the blame of the Versailles treaty (there was famine in Germany 1919 because of french and english "reparation" costs), the jews (from financial crunch till all detrimental meddling schemes between nations), the socialists, communists, etc... and so too the japanese students learned the hatred about the western colonial powers that have no right in Asia, and that the purification of the Asian hemisphere should be total: no single westerner should have anything to say over the Asians which would fall under the Japanese supremacy.
    ...
    More recent examples were the DDR , North Korea, the African child soldiers , etc.. list is endless...
    And of course no one back home would get anything to hear or see about atrocities...and home leaving soldiers are expressly forbidden to say anything considered "undermining the public order" when talking to family on penalty of severe punishment.

    It really takes only some 10 years to "turn" a society. Exactly the difference between 10 year olds and 20 year olds..
    B)
    Control the youth and you control the future...
     

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