Japanese Atrocities.

Discussion in 'War Against Japan' started by Kaiser, Mar 27, 2005.

  1. Friedrich H

    Friedrich H Senior Member

    However, looking at the teetering sympathy shown on these boards towards the allies

    And who the-hell can be sympathetic to the Axis and what it stood for?!

    Can I have sympathy to THIS:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Hell no!!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:

    along with many people here believing that the axis was purely evil

    Well, it bloody was pure evil! Please tell me one single positive thing about the Axis? Some thing good it contributed or could have contributed to the world?
     
  2. Blackblue

    Blackblue Senior Member

    C'mon Ryobreak,
    A Time Life book doesn't the mustard I'm afraid. Lets see some real references!!
    There were a lot of depressions in other countries too...the difference is that these countries didn't invade China and massacre half the population. Yamamoto was probably as much to blame for war crimes as anyone in the chain of command during WW2. The only thing that saved him from the noose was he was KIA during the war.

    Rgds

    Tim
     
  3. ryobreak

    ryobreak Junior Member

    Originally posted by Blackblue@Jun 22 2005, 07:22 PM
    C'mon Ryobreak,
    A Time Life book doesn't the mustard I'm afraid. Lets see some real references!!
    There were a lot of depressions in other countries too...the difference is that these countries didn't invade China and massacre half the population. Yamamoto was probably as much to blame for war crimes as anyone in the chain of command during WW2. The only thing that saved him from the noose was he was KIA during the war.

    Rgds

    Tim
    [post=35687]Quoted post[/post]

    Massacre half the population? I suggest you get your own numbers straight.
     
  4. GUMALANGI

    GUMALANGI Senior Member

    Originally posted by Friedrich H@Jun 22 2005, 05:58 PM
    However, looking at the teetering sympathy shown on these boards towards the allies
    Please tell me one single positive thing about the Axis? Some thing good it contributed or could have contributed to the world?
    [post=35676]Quoted post[/post]

    I can name few,.. but few they were indeed,..

    - For the first time,.. colonized regions able to practise self governed style over their regions. Japanese tought on how to run a civic government to them. During western/european rule, locals by all means not allowed to mingle with their ruler, as some places does not allowed 'Dog and local' to enter the premises.... let alone to perform a descend governmental practise.

    - Japanese formed an organized para-military unit , each of the unit leads by local selected officer. which later part of the history become the back bone of the army forces of new born nations. Whereas, prior to WW2, local recruits given no ranks and often armed with stick or oldest possible weapons. hardly for locals to reach a junior officer ranks.

    - Seeing that the Japs were able win, at the earlier stage of the war, against the western, occupied people able to realize that, western are not invincible, and they too, will able to stand up in the event of their return, and these leads to their freedom.

    regards
     
  5. Blackblue

    Blackblue Senior Member

    Originally posted by ryobreak+Jun 23 2005, 10:45 AM-->(ryobreak @ Jun 23 2005, 10:45 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Blackblue@Jun 22 2005, 07:22 PM
    C'mon Ryobreak,
    A Time Life book doesn't the mustard I'm afraid.  Lets see some real references!! 
    There were a lot of depressions in other countries too...the difference is that these countries didn't invade China and massacre half the population.  Yamamoto was probably as much to blame for war crimes as anyone in the chain of command during WW2.  The only thing that saved him from the noose was he was KIA during the war. 

    Rgds

    Tim
    [post=35687]Quoted post[/post]

    Massacre half the population? I suggest you get your own numbers straight.
    [post=35691]Quoted post[/post]
    [/b]
    OK then smart guy. Delete '..half..' and insert '...a significant proportion...'. Lets see what you've got. Lets see some evidence. :)
     
  6. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    I do not moderate this particular forum, but it is noted that the tone of some of the posts is getting on towards abusive. Unless people want their posts deleted or modified, they need to keep away from this. It does NOT stop you forcefully arguing your point if you know your facts.
     
  7. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Originally posted by ryobreak@Jun 21 2005, 09:54 AM
    All this talk about the Japanese failing to confess their warcrimes are untrue. In fact, if you look close enough, the Japanese government has publically apologized for their army's aggressive actions towards civilians a total of 17 times.

    This is a big number ryobreak, in what context, by whom and to whom were they made?

    There seems to be a hint of Right Wing in your post's that is re - emerging in Japan to re write the history of WW2.

    A recent report of what IS HAPPENING is included below which you may have read.

    Japan's decision to approve new school textbooks, criticised by some for glossing over the country's wartime record, have promoted demonstrations in several Chinese cities. But as William Horsley discovers the row between the two countries concerns the future as well as the past.

    Yasukuni Shrine
    Prime Minister Koizumi's visits to the shrine were criticised by China
    The most striking thing about the Yasukuni Shrine is its massive and forbidding black "torii" gate.

    A distinctive symbol of the Shinto religion, a gaunt silhouette beneath which, on a bright spring day, I watched men and women of all ages streaming in to pay their respects to ancestors, or to admire the enchanting display of cherry blossoms on the tree-lined avenue.

    Each family group would pause, shut their eyes and pray in front of the open-plan wooden building where the souls of two-and-a-half-million Japanese war dead are enshrined.

    Those war dead include Hideki Tojo, Japan's wartime prime minister who was later hanged with a dozen other top leaders as a war criminal.

    Japan's present leader, Junichiro Koizumi has made regular visits to Yasukuni Shrine in spite of furious complaints from China, South Korea and other neighbouring countries that in doing so he was condoning Japan's aggressive war in the 1930s and 1940s.

    And now, the news from China is bad, very bad.

    Demonstrations

    Chinese demonstrators burn a Japanese flag
    Demonstrations over the text-books have extended to South Korea
    Last weekend an angry crowd gathered in Beijing to throw stones at the Japanese embassy.

    In other cities young people have attacked Japanese shops and businesses.

    In Shanghai two Japanese students were badly beaten up in a restaurant.

    Chinese leaders say Japan will not deserve a permanent seat on the UN Security Council until it faces up honestly to its wartime misdeeds.

    An e-mail doing the rounds in China calls for a mass boycott of Japanese goods. "Send this on to other Chinese people", the message says, "and we won't need to go to war!"

    History

    This stream of invective against the Japanese is not new.

    Some Asia watchers see it largely as a device by Chinese leaders to extract more Japanese aid or divert attention from their own failings.

    It is alarmingly reminiscent of the age of the Communist Red Guards.


    The Yasukuni Shrine remains a potent symbol of how the Japanese, intoxicated by fascism and coerced by military rule, once collectively lost their reason and were fed fantastic myths, of racial superiority and the Emperor's divinity
    But on this trip to Japan I could not avoid the conclusion that a new mood of nationalism has also begun to take hold in this country which has been publicly devoted to peace and economic prosperity for so long.

    One sign is the Japanese authorities' approval of several new school history textbooks written by known right-wing scholars.

    One book which has angered the Chinese failed to make any assessment of the number of Chinese civilians killed in the infamous Rape of Nanjing.

    The internationally accepted view is that hundreds of thousands died in an orgy of sexual violence and killing by Japanese troops.

    And Japan's largest national newspaper, the Yomiuri Shimbun, in what I take to be blatant disregard for the known facts, has called on its readers to celebrate, because the new textbooks have cut out all mention of one of the greatest of all the humiliations inflicted by Imperial Japan on its neighbours: the use of large numbers of women in conquered Asian countries as sex slaves for the Japanese army.

    It was right to set the record straight, I read, because the accusations "had been shown to be untrue".

    Surely I thought modern Japan could not give in to the poison of such deceit and hypocrisy ever again.

    The Yasukuni Shrine remains a potent symbol of how the Japanese, intoxicated by fascism and coerced by military rule, once collectively lost their reason and were fed fantastic myths, of racial superiority and the Emperor's divinity.

    'Bitter dispute'

    I had come to see the recently expanded Yasukuni museum of Japanese history.


    For 100 years Japan has been number one in Asia. Now China, with 10 times Japan's population, is in a hurry to take over that role
    I found that its 18 galleries of high-quality displays, maps and texts amount to a lavish and expensive re-write of the history of Japan's imperial age, to show the Japanese as innocent victims of a conspiracy by the Western colonial powers, to thwart Japan's ambition to lead East Asia and force Japan into war.

    By this account annexing Korea, setting up a puppet regime in Manchukuo, the step by step takeover of China, each was done in self-defence, aiming only to bring peace.

    As for Nanjing, I found no mention of Japanese soldiers killing civilians.

    Instead, these words: "The Chinese were soundly defeated, suffering heavy casualties. Inside the city, residents were once again able to live their lives in peace."

    However you look at it, that will not do as a record of what happened.



    By chance I came across this testimony of a Japanese army veteran who was there.

    "No matter how young or old, none of the women we rounded up could escape being raped. Each one was allocated to 15 or 20 soldiers for sexual intercourse and abuse."

    Afterwards "we always stabbed them and killed them. Because dead bodies don't talk."

    The bitter dispute now raging between Japan and China is both about setting the record straight and about a struggle for power
     
  8. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

     
  9. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Originally posted by ryobreak@Jun 21 2005, 09:54 AM

    I don't intend to say what the Japanese did was right, but, I want to make three vital points:
    1) Tokyo never authorized the "mass-killing" of Chinese, instead, the local generals issued the order despite Tokyo's strict demands to stop.
    2) Under the conditions against the Japanese soldiers, they didn't have much of a choice, to eliminate a cloaked foe, they would have to become aggressive with local civlians.
    3) As of modern date, Japan HAS publically announced an apology for war crimes 17 times. What the riot in China was about was mainly revolving around Japan's admittance to the whole UN ordeal, along with the Japanese prime minister praying at the Yasukuni shrine, where dead Japanese military personnel are praised.
    [post=35561]Quoted post[/post]


    I feel by your first introduction to these three points this is exactly what you are attempting to do.

    You are defending this form of murder - Pure & Simple.

    Your statement above supports that the ruthlessness occured because the Chinese would not bow to the invader.

    Asia for Asiatics be damned - It was Asia for Japan.
     
  10. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Credit for this article is to ww2pacific.com.
    Full details are available at http://www.ww2pacific.com/atrocity.html
    The site is well worth the visit.

    A SHORT LIST OF THE DOCUMENTED AND PROVEN ATTROCITIES COMMITTED BY THE JAPANESE FORCES IN THEIR QUEST FOR A NEW CO-PROSPERITY SPHERE UNDER THE GUISE OF:
    “ASIA FOR THE ASIATICS”

    Nanking, China. Over 200,000 Chinese men used for bayonet practice, machine gunned, or set on fire. Thousands more were murdered. 20,000 women and girls were raped, killed or mutilated. The massacre of a quarter million people was an intentional policy to force China to make peace. It did not happen. World opinion, which until this time had accepted modern Japan's desire to oversee backward China, was repelled in horror.

    New officers were indoctrinated to the expectations of war by beheading Chinese captives. The last stage of the training of combat troops was to bayonet a living human and a trial of courage for the officers. Prisoners were blindfolded and tied to poles; soldiers dashed forward to bayonet their target at the shout of "Charge!"

    Combat medical units moved to China where live bodies were plentiful. If the class was in sutures, a Chinaman was shot in the belly for doctors to practice. Amputations? - then arms were removed. Living people was more instructive than work on cadavers, (a dead body to e dissected) the students need to get used to blood and screaming.

    Bacterial warfare experiments conducted by an infamous medical unit moved to Manchuria. Bombs of anthrax and plague were tested on Chinese cities until the results were so good that too many Japanese soldiers also died. This unit also practiced vivisection. See more details of unit 731, along with web citations for those with the stomach.

    Korean Comfort Women "forced by the Imperial Japanese Army to repeatedly provide sex for Japanese soldiers throughout Asia are said to number between 80,000 and 200,000. Many of the victims were underage at the time, and either died in despair or suffered health impairments. These women, who suffer from mental and physical pain, not to mention social isolation and prejudice, are now seeking an official apology from the Japanese government and individual compensation as a measure to rehabilitate their honour." - Aug 2002

    Malaya. Japanese troops decapitated 200 wounded Australians and Indians left behind when Australian troops withdrew through the jungle from Muar.
    Singapore. Japanese soldiers bayonet 300 patients and staff of Alexandra military hospital 9 Feb 1942. British women had their hands behind their backs and repeatedly raped. All Chinese residents were interviewed and 5,000 selected for execution.

    Wake Island. A construction crew of 1,200 mostly Idaho youths, captured when Wake Island fell, were shipped to Japanese prison camps. Five were beheaded to encourage good behaviour on the trip. The Japanese decided to keep 100 of the civilian contractors on the island to complete the airbase, which became functional in 1943. When US Navy planes attacked the island, the Japanese commander executed the civilians.

    Dutch East Indies. Those Dutch accused of resisting Japan or participating in the destruction of the oil refineries had arms or legs chopped off. 20,000 men were forced into the ocean and machine gunned. 20,000 women and children were repeatedly raped, then many were killed.

    Dutch Borneo. The entire white population of Balikpapan was executed.
    Java. The entire white male population of Tjepu was executed. Women were raped.
    Survivors of USS Edsall (DD-219) are beheaded.

    Philippines. Any soldier captured before the surrender was executed.
    The Bataan Death March -- 7,000 surrendered men died. Those that could not keep up the pace were clubbed, stabbed, shot, beheaded or buried alive.
    Once the prison camp had been reached, disease, malnutrition and brutality claimed up to 400 American and Filipinos – EACH DAY.

    Thailand. 15,000 military prisoners and 75,000 native labourers died building a railroad between Bangkok and Rangoon. Bridge Over the River Kwai.
    Doolittle Raid, Japan. Three of eight US airmen captured were executed.
    Doolittle Raid, China. 25,000 Chinese in villages through which the US flyers escaped were slaughtered in a three month reign of terror.

    Midway. Japanese destroyers rescued three U.S. naval aviators; after interrogation, all three were murdered.

    Attu. Japanese troops overran the medical aid station; after killing the doctors, they bayoneted the wounded.

    Makin Atoll (Kiribati). Nine of Carlson's Marine raiders were left behind, hid for two weeks and surrendered. They were beheaded a few weeks later when a ship was not available to take them to a prisoner of war camp.

    USS Sculpin. Forty-two of submarine Sculpin's crew were picked up by Yamagumo. One, severely wounded, was thrown overbroad. Survivors were forced to work in the copper mines at Ashio until released at the end of the war.

    Indian Ocean. Capt Ariizumi, ComSubRon One, commanded submarine I-8 in the Indian Ocean. On March 26th, 1944, he collected from the water and massacred 98 unarmed survivors of the Dutch merchantman Tjisalak he'd sunk south of Colombo. He repeated this performance with 96 prisoners from the American Jean Nicolet in the Maldives on July 2nd. He destroyed the lifeboats and dived, leaving 35 bound survivors on deck. 23 managed to untie their bonds and swim all night to be rescued by the Royal Indian Navy. Capt Ariizumi committed hara-kiri while his squadron was being escorted to Yokosuka by the U.S. Navy.

    I-26 is also known to have rammed merchant lifeboats from Richard Hovey and machine-gunned those in the water.

    3Aug45. Japanese hospital ship Tachibana searched by Charrette (DD-581) when observed throwing weighted bags overboard. Found thirty (30) tons of ammunition, mortars, and machine guns in Red Cross boxes along with 1,500 soldiers released from hospital on Kai bound for Soerabaja.

    Japan. Eight US airmen were used for medical dissection at Kyushu Imperial University with organs removed while the prisoners were still alive.

    Bushi, the way of the soldier, was the creed of the Japanese in the Pacific War. It was not that long ago. The story of atrocities created under a pagan code is suppressed today in the interests of good will with a business partner. Less we forget. Civilization in only a veneer over other instincts of mankind.

    History tells mass murder comes in many names, of Attila, Genghis Khan, and Tamerlane. Hundreds of Indians and settlers were slaughtered like buffalo. Within the living lifetime: Stalin purged twenty-some millions of his own people. Mao may have topped him during 1949-76. Nazi gave final solution to five or six millions. Kurds have lost millions. The Chamer Rouge killed 1.6 million. Less we forget. Hope for peace, but be prepared to resist savagery.
    ________________________________________
    One Act of Compasion :
    While the Japanse were destroying the US forces in the Philippines, a pilot dropped a message saying they intended to destroy the facility next to the base hospital and that we should we move the patients. We did. They did.
    ________________________________________
    Additional reading. The Knights of Bushido: the Shocking History of Japanese War Atrocities
    by Lord Edward Fredrick Russell, Dutton, 1958. Companion volume to his The Scourge of The Swastika.
    Some items from the book.
    • Jan 1942. Dutch naval POWs taken to the spot where their ship had fired on a Japanese destroyer, decapitated and thrown into the sea.
    • 16Feb42. British evacuees from Singapore on the island of Bauka surrendered to a Japanese detail. The 26 soldiers were executed, the 22 Army nurses were marched into the sea and machine gunned, the twelve stretcher cases were bayoneted. -- Story told by the surviving nurse, who, though shot, was washed ashore.
    • March 1942. Kota Radja, Indonesia. Dutch prisoners put on a barge, towed out to sea, shot and thrown overboard.
    • 7 Oct 43. Wake Island. On the order of RAdm Sakibara, 96 prisoners were blindfolded, hands tied behind their backs and massacred.
    • Oct 1944. New Guinea. A battalion commander confessed after the war, "I asked if I could get an American POW and kill him." Two were delivered, blindfolded, stabbed with a bayonet and decapitated with shovels.
    • 12 Nov 44. New Britain. US fighter pilot made a forced landing. Beheaded, flesh cut form his body, cut into small pieces, fried and served to a large group of officers.
    • 14 Dec 44. Palawan, Philippines. About 100 army and 50 marines had been warned if the US invades, they would be killed. When American planes attacked, Lt. Sato led 50 soldiers to pour buckets of gasoline on the entrances to shelters and ignite it. As the men came out they were bayoneted, shot or clubbed. -- Told by one of five survivors who escaped through a fence, shedding his burning clothes. Last Man Out.
    • 12 Nov 45. Guam. The flesh of LTjg H___, aviator, was served to an infantry battalion. [The Japanese order for this communion-like sacrifice was captured.]
    Russell concentrates on events sanctioned by higher authorities as documented by War Crimes Trial, whereas I have extracted events from readings. Although many leaders practiced human treatment, the norm was total indifference, and bestial behaviour was a totally accepted.

    Use of Allied prisoners of war for slave labour by Japanese companies is discussed in: "Unjust Enrichment" by Linda Goetz Holmes, 2001.

    Her 1994 book, "4000 Bowls of Rice: A Prisoner of War Comes Home", is about Allied prisoners of the Japanese who built the Burma Railway.

    "Last Man Out: Glenn McDole, USMC, Survivor of the Palawan Massacre in World War II" by Bob Wilbanks.
    View attachment 813
     
    A-58 likes this.
  11. PalidaMortis

    PalidaMortis Junior Member

    Seems to me the only virtue some Japanese exhibited was their assistance with a handful of jewish refugees from certain death at the hands of the Germans
     
  12. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Originally posted by PalidaMortis@Jun 26 2005, 03:01 AM
    Seems to me the only virtue some Japanese exhibited was their assistance with a handful of jewish refugees from certain death at the hands of the Germans
    [post=35809]Quoted post[/post]


    If some of you are not aware of the PalidaMortis reply, it refers to the Wartime Japanese Consul in Kovno, Lithuania, Chiune Sugihara, who signed visas for Jews to allow them into Japan. These Jews could then travel to a friendlier country.

    There were many other Consul's in other European countries who did the same. The number was estimated to be in excess of 200,000.
     
  13. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Originally posted by spidge+Jun 26 2005, 10:08 PM-->(spidge @ Jun 26 2005, 10:08 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-PalidaMortis@Jun 26 2005, 03:01 AM
    Seems to me the only virtue some Japanese exhibited was their assistance with a handful of jewish refugees from certain death at the hands of the Germans
    [post=35809]Quoted post[/post]

    There were many other Consul's in other European countries who did the same. The number was estimated to be in excess of 200,000.
    [post=35846]Quoted post[/post]
    [/b]
    This was Visas for Jews, not Consul's!
     
  14. sappernz

    sappernz Member

    **ADMIN EDIT**
     
  15. Blackblue

    Blackblue Senior Member

    Geez sapper!! Your VC is in the mail.

    Have been thinking about this for a few days. Only been here a short while....however you won't see me here again. I have found this site informative and interesting and am glad to have met some like minded individuals.

    Allowing garbage to be posted by idiots about the apparent saintly-hood of the Japanese armed forces before and during WW2 leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and disrespects all those who sufferred as a result.

    To be warned about posts (and I guess they were mine) being abusive, when an individual is allowed to post rubbish denying war crimes occurred and make jokes about 'cleaning up' communist China for the Americans makes me realise this site is better off without my input.

    If this individuals input was directed at Black Americans and not allied POW and Chinese I am sure it would be on the front page of the New York Times and the Washington Post.

    Enough said.

    Tim
     
  16. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    **ADMIN EDIT**

    [/
     
  17. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    I posted my comments about the way some of the comments were going a few days ago because it seemed to me that the board guidelines were on the brink of being broken. To see the guidelines, which we all as forum members agree to abide by, go the top left hand corner of the page next to "portal".

    Now I am sure that at least one post has broken the rules, so I have reported it to Lee who moderates this topic. This is what we all need to do if we think it necessary. The mod will then check it out the next time (s)he is online.

    But as long as the guidelines are not broken, you should not expect the moderating team to act as censors, stating which opinions are acceptable and which are not. An online discussion forum needs to accommodate a range of opinions on every topic - within the guidelines.
     
  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    American POWs using improvised litters to carry fallen comrades on Bataan march.
    [​IMG]
    privateletters.net
     
  19. VinnyVA

    VinnyVA Junior Member

    My granddad is somewhere within the ranks of those men. I believe he survived the march because of his physical training as a golden glove boxer in Kansas City before the war.
     
  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Vinny and welcome to the forum

    Regards
    Andy
     

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