Jack de Manio

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by m kenny, Oct 23, 2014.

  1. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    Anyone know why he was court martialed in 1944 and kicked out of the army?
    Was it for the 'usual' reasons?
     
  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Court Martialled for "Miscellaneous Military Offences" according to the register

    WO 90/9 Volume 9 Page 8 Abroad Officer
    F.G.C.M.
    Received 21 Apr 1944
    Rank War Substantive Lieutenant
    Name J. DE MANIO
    Regiment 1 Royal Sussex Regiment
    Where In Field (M.E.)
    Date of Trial 2 Feb 1944
    de manio 1.JPG de manio 2.JPG


    The register includes separate columns for
    Mutiny
    Cowardice
    Desertion
    Guilty of Absence
    Absence
    Striking or Violence
    Insubordination and Threatening
    Disobedience and Neglecting to Obey Orders
    Leaving Post
    Drunkenness
    Theft
    Fraud
    Cheque Offences
    Indecency
    Resisting Escort
    Escaping
    Scandalous Conduct
    Miscellaneous Military Offences
    Miscellaneous Civil Offences


    [hr]

    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7356444
    Reference: WO 373/15/175
    Description:
    Name De Manio, J B
    Rank: Second Lieutenant
    Regiment: 7 Royal Sussex Regiment
    Theatre of Combat or Operation: British Expeditionary Force
    Award: Military Cross
    Date of announcement in London Gazette: 11 July 1940
    Screen Shot 2014-10-23 at 18.41.32.png
     
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  3. Bernard85

    Bernard85 WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    good day m kenny.sm.yesterday.04:51pm.re:jack de manio.wy was he kicked out of the army.i do not know.but it was not for the lack of courage,i read the link on d,b.f post.and he was quiet the hero.showing much bravery,it would be interesting to know,thanks for posting regards bernard85
     
  4. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    A search on the internet reveals a lot of the references to a Bar to his MC, but I can only find three entries in the London Gazette: to him being Commissioned, receiving his award of the MC and being dismissed from the service.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
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  5. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Miscellaneous offences
    60. Unauthorised disclosure of information..
    61. Making of false statements on enlistment. .
    62. Making of false documents..
    63. Offences against civilian population..
    63A. Offences against morale..
    64. Scandalous conduct by officers. .
    65. Ill-treatment of officers or men of inferior rank..
    66. Disgraceful conduct. .
    67.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    68. Attempts to commit military offences..
    68A. Aiding and abetting etc., and inciting..
    69. Conduct to prejudice of military discipline...


    Kyle
     
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  6. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    It also struck me how much info you can get on the man but nothing on his Court Martial. Given he was a very well known personality you would think it would have surfaced by now. Must have been serious.
     
  7. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    M Kenny

    It probably was very serious as if we look at the date of his trial - early '44 - his regiment was part of 4th Indian Division

    which was taking a hammering at Monte Cassino - enough to make anyone go berserkā€¦

    Cheers
     
  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  9. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/army-courts-17th-20th.htm#16118


    7. Trials of commissioned officers, 1668-1993

    Commissioned officers could be tried only by general or field general courts martial: these are indexed between 1830 and 1904 in WO 93/1B.

    The records are mostly in WO 71, which includes original papers in the case (such as warrants, letters and depositions, sometimes described as 'papers') as well as entry books of the trial proceedings. There are several series of records in WO 71:

    Type of record / Dates / Catalogue reference
    Papers 1668-1879 WO 71/121-343
    Papers 1851-1914 Destroyed by bombing in 1940: look at the registers instead
    Proceedings 1692-1796 WO 71/13-64 (3 series)
    Proceedings 1914-1993 WO 71/387-1586 (closed for 30-100 years)
    Special cases and senior officers: papers 1780-1824, 1879 WO 71/99-120 and WO 343

    Ireland: special returns: papers 1800-1820 WO 71/252-264
    Irish civilians 1916-1921 WO 71/344-386



    If under the 30 yr rule papers should be open, if not then FOI can be used
    http://apps.nationalarchives.gov.uk/foi/requests.htm
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I'm wondering if the date is wrong on his citation. Bray makes me think of Bray Dunes on the coast. On the 20th May the Bn was at Amiens having a busy time of it. They eventually retreated through Northern France to be evacuated from Cherbourg on the Duke of York around mid June.
     
  11. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Bray-sur-Somme is close to Amiens.
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    There you go....There's a fair few pages dated the 20th May in the diary. I'll have a proper read and check the Regiments history.
     
  13. Richard Norman

    Richard Norman New Member

    Hi Drew5233, did you check?
     
  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    If I did, I can't remember.
     
  15. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I've checked the '44 War Diaries for that battalion and no Lieutenant DE MANIO is recorded on the roster of officers from the 1 Royal Sussex at any stage in 1944. It doesn't look like he made it to Cassino. Probably a good thing for him: the battalion suffered a very high rate of attrition for junior officers while there--mostly WIA, but several killed.

    How long does it take to process a court martial?

    Could 1944 be incorrect?
     
  16. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    According to a post here:

    Royal Sussex Regiment | Page 2 | Military History Forum (Cited from: Royal Sussex Regiment | Page 2 | Military History Forum)

    De Manio is recalled by a former comrade as being with the battalion as an officer in North Africa and not Italy, so 1943 and not 1944.

    4th Indian Division arrived in Italy in early December (On Dec 8th in Taranto) and I find it hard to believe that he could have been in trouble at some stage prior to that in 1943 and not be court-martialled until very almost May 1944. If the offence was committed on the battlefield, that further pushes the window back to May 1943.

    Edit: this source gives 20.03.44 as the date for the court-martial:

    British Army Officers 1939-1945 -- D

    ...and cites a new job in Forces Broadcasting, Middle East in 1944! He can't have been in too much trouble.

    Edit2: Apparently his autobiography, Life Begins Too Early: A Sort of Autobiography, does not discuss the matter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
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  17. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  18. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Does anybody have the 1943 diaries for 1 Royal Sussex?

    Reference: WO 169/10303
    Description: 1 Royal Sussex Regiment
    Date: 1943 Jan.- Dec.

    Just noticed, location for court-martial 'in the field' is M.E.: Middle East.
     
  19. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Hi Steve,
    No officers highest rank amongst the men was Serjeant. 100313 2/Lt J,B Di Manio M.C was wounded in action 23 February 1941

    Kyle
     
  20. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    I've got the Saul David book but can't find it, Kyle. Probably lent it to someone, as that's generally how I lose books.

    I seem to recall that there were some officers initially involved or sympathising, but after pressure from senior officers they relented. Of the original mutineers there were left just under 200 that continued to refuse to join other units. Of these 3 Serjeants were sentenced to death; the sentences being later commuted.

    As mentioned, it is a wild card... Nothing but dead-ends online so far!
     

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