Discussion in 'The Barracks' started by bamboo43, Jul 11, 2020.
Very sad news this morning:
Jack Charlton: 1966 England World Cup winner dies aged 85
A couple of messages I posted in the past about Jack:
Grandfathers War Records - Help Please? Message No. 10
Martin Peters (England World Cup Winner) Message N0. 10
There was a famous story about Jack Charlton. After he managed the Irish national team he was worshipped in Ireland. He liked a drink and one day in an Irish pub he asked if he could pay by checque, which he then did. Next day he went back to the same pub and saw that the cheque had been framed and was hanging on the wall. Legend has it he never had to pay for a drink in Ireland again as he would always pay by cheque and they would never get cashed!
Don't know if this is true, but it's a great story. I always liked the way he pronounced Ajax also, with a firm emphasis on the "j". A real character.
My memory is of his little black book:
Spotted this..I know a photo set up but pretty funny....JC did play 772 times for dirty Leeds so the fags were obviously not a draw back at the time.
That's the old Leeds United training area outside Elland Road.
I used to support Leeds as my second team behind QPR in the early 1970s, they were a mighty side, but very dirty at times.
Rangers were really good in the late '70s... apart from die hard Leeds fans, I thought that they were everyone's least favourite team (apart from Woolwich W, of course)... DR and all.. and those sock tags...
Yes, I remember them being the first team (perhaps) to change their kit every year, at great cost to the supporters. I loved Johnny Giles, wonderfully gifted player.
I am saddened but not very surprised by this. I saw some film of Jack at Ray Wilson's funeral two years ago and he did not look at all well. He came down with dementia too, just like Ray, Martin Peters, and Nobby Stiles. What's that, four out of eleven? Just awful. So, who's left still alive and still sound now? Geoff Hurst, Roger Hunt, George Cohen, Bobby. That's it.
Have there ever been two brothers with such opposite personalities as Jack and Bobby? I remember a collective interview with the 66 survivors a few years back. For every word Bobby said Jack said about six. I had heard that the two fell out badly some years ago, something to do with their mother and Bobby's wife. I hope they made up before Jack died.
Jack was certainly a character--Dickens would have loved him--and the news stories were full of old Jack anecdotes. One thing bothered me, though--the tendency to treat Charlton's roughness on the pitch in a humorous or euphemistic way. Norman Hunter got the same sort of kid gloves treatment when he died a couple of months ago (though Brian Glanville did tell the truth). Jack of course rationalized his clogging tendencies, as you would expect him to do, but years ago Martin Amis characterized Jack as "one of the most physical players to ever pull on an England shirt." I'm sorry Jack's gone, I respect Alf Ramsey and I love Nobby Stiles, but I'm afraid that all three men were part of a deplorable physical trend which contributed to the decline of English football.
I checked some of the obits. Jack specifically denied the truth of that story, but he did say that people often gave him drinks.
"I respect Alf Ramsey and I love Nobby Stiles, but I'm afraid that all three men were part of a deplorable physical trend which contributed to the decline of English football."
So much so that they won the World Cup in 1966! And let's face it, compared to some teams at the time (Argentina for example), they were angels.
I was thinking the same, and Italy were quite successful in the following decades using a firm defensive platform incorporating players such as Ferrini and then the infamous and rather unsuitably named Gentile.
Jack and Bobby did have harsh words and there was a distance between them. But Jack loved Bobby and I’m sure that love was reciprocated. Jack also thought Bobby the best player ever to wear the three lions and was proud to tell everyone so. I heard him say it at an event at Knebworth in 1996. What Jack had an issue with was to do with their mother Cissie, who he felt Bobby had neglected. This Jack maintained was all Bobby’s wife’s doing, the accusation being that Bobby was ‘pussy whipped’ into the alleged neglect; for want of a better expression. Bobby disagreed, albeit he admitted that his wife and mother didn’t get along. Apparently they have been on speaking terms since Ray Wilson’s funeral two years ago, so hopefully they were in touch before Jack died.
Paul Gascoigne was probably the most blessed footballer I have seen skill-wise, but was flawed in behaviour and consistency. Alan Shearer was by far the best striker in the Premier League era. But in my lifetime Bobby Charlton is the stand out English footballer. Frank Beckenbauer would agree with that last statement.
I remember Jack also stating that the Munich air crash had a big impact on Bobby and he became much more serious and introverted after that experience.
66 was the peak and of course that squad had some great attacking players as well, but I don't abate my general criticism.
Yes, the Italians were known for that. Romeo Benetti I have heard was the worst, but the Italians always had great skill too.
Fair enough - agree to disagree. However, if Jack Charlton had been in the England team in '86, there is no way Maradona would have scored that second goal. Jack would have found a way to stop him. Sometimes you need to be ugly to be successful at the beautiful game.
Rather the football of that era than the fairy dramatics that go on now. Nowadays players get sent off for not tackling someone who dives in the penalty area. The football nowadays sickens me, a real turn-off.
And if it had not been for Harry Gregg, who we lost in February, Bobby may not be here today. I met Bobby once - a nice man.
Match of Their Day: Jack Charlton
BBC Two 22.45 Today
Garth Crooks talks to Jack Charlton about his playing career with Leeds United and England.
Either very ‘Spooky’ or recorded before Jack passed!
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