IWM on-line films - Adobe Flash Player

Discussion in 'Research Material' started by Rich Payne, May 7, 2016.

  1. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I've been trying to look closely at an IWM film but there seems to be no facility for looking at still frames and pausing the film plonks a wretched great pause icon just where the Arm of Service serial is likely to be...is it possible to open the IWM films with any other software that is a bit more viewer friendly or can I download it in some way and use another viewer ?

    ...and is it possible to obtain high res copies of this 35mm film without being a big-budget commercial customer ?
     
  2. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Screenshots are useful (for me at least.)

    Ctrl + Alt + Print Screen

    Then paste somewhere suitable.
     
  3. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Rich,

    I'm not really up on the latest screen capturing software. In the past I've used CamStudio (free) and Camtasia (not free) to record films. There is also software to capture streaming video. How well they would work with IWM I'm not sure as they depend on finding the hidden url from whence the streaming bits emanate. The IWM films you are allowed to see on site are low quality. You can download watermarked films if you are a commercial user.

    http://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/help#contact

    Non-commercial users seem to get the short end of the stick. There was a thread on here where someone was able to buy a film and added stills which were pretty good quality.

    Sorry that's not much help.

    Regards ...
     
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Thanks Cee, it is a help. I've found that I can save screen shots using fireshot but always with the pause icon bang in the middle...I really don't know where serious non-commercial researchers stand with IWM. They probably don't trust us not to spread the images around.

    Andy has found me some 2nd Infantry Division BEF stuff and I'm infatuated !
     
  5. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Rewdco has been able to save the films using a standard mac programme...it's still defeating several of us on Windows which probably means that's the one they tried hardest to prevent it on...
     
  6. Reid

    Reid Historian & Architectural Photographer

    Well, I found a rather long-winded way to access the video I chose, in VLC Player (I have a Mac too but my usual way to do this, wouldn't work.)

    I don't know how savvy you are with computers but to do this, I checked the page source file (the html code) and found the html link that matches the video. Then I copied it, pasted it into a new window, hit enter and viola! It opened in VLC Player, from where you can then save at your leisure.

    I'm not 100% positive where you are accessing the files, but IWM Film Collections have this particular coding for the embedded player. The HIGHLIGHTED YELLOW is the video component; note the use of rtmp for the prefix in the URL.

    code.jpg

    If you download VLC Player (Windows version) and copy and paste that into a new window (or into VLC itself: File>Open Network>Paste URL) you can view files, save files and pause etc without the problems you said you are currently having. (Pasting it into your browser window just makes VLC open it, if you can't be bothered to do it yourself. ;))

    The two links below were extracted from their online pages and open in VLC, just copy and paste.

    rtmp://streaming-cluster.iwmcollections.com/VODWEBVIDEO/flv:00237DA46CC6/2013/0413/0952/000/000000/000000
    rtmp://streaming-cluster.iwmcollections.com/VODWEBVIDEO/flv:00237DA46CC6/2014/0815/0152/000/000000/000000

    HTH
     
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  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    VLC rocks.
    Not found a format it won't play yet.

    Flash has to die.
    Embarrassing infection vector which really shouldn't be needed in the current html world, but they still soldier on with the damned thing.
    Stick to Photoshop, Adobe, you're brilliant at that.
     
  8. Reid

    Reid Historian & Architectural Photographer

    Indeed!

    VLC is one amazing program - I use it for all my movies/videos, and it has saved me tearing my hair out on many occasions, especially with QT movies!!
     
  9. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    Sorry to be late with advice Rich, but doing this for a living I'd recommend VLC first on most occasions. It is a very stable platform and will take anything thrown at it pretty much as long as it's not damaged - and even then it will play stuff other more delicate programmes won't. If you're still having trouble, let me know- as Reid says above, it'll even sort out Quicktime - a mac format on a PC. I'm afraid I'm a mac person, having spent too many hours of my life fixing PC's after the kids had supposedly done 'nothing' to them.

    PS, just tried Reid's suggestion, it works for me - and the added bonus of saving the films - at 640x480, you're not going to get cinema quality, but you don't want that, but it gets rid of the pause icon.
     
  10. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Has anybody here successfully purchased film from IWM? I've emailed them about a five-minute recording they have [Tunisia '43] - and no doubt will hear back soon - but I'm impatient to know about costs/formats/quality for non-commercial customers. Their whole sales operation seems geared towards publishers and production companies.

    If one puts cost aside, the digital photographs I bought from them recently were excellent, but I've not found anybody who has purchased film from them yet.

    I ask as at least some of the recording is available for sale elsewhere online, so I'm going to need to make some kind of cost/quality/service comparison before ordering.
     
  11. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    PM sent Charley:)
     
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  12. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    A lot of the IWM stuff is on the Pathe & AP YouTube channels and in far better quality than the IWM which in my eye is useless for anything other than an overview. The 'raw' IWM reels are the ones labelled 'unissued/unused' and time spent viewing them (making a rough record as you go) is never wasted. You can download YouTube stuff as well. The French have digitised all their German newsreel footage and it is on the ina. fr site. The quality is very good and the comparison to the IWM footage is stark.
    I did get some film copied at The IWM a few years back and it appears to have been early 'aim video camera at viewing screen' method. Not bad but still blurred around the edges.
    They used to do huge discounts for veterans a few years back and if they still do that is the way to go.

    Side note:
    I only posted because I saw no Hilary Clinton/Donald Trump/EU threads in the new post listing. Once I see them I tend to leave. I believe this US style of confrontational political shout-fest ruins every forum that allows it. That and the fact some of the extreme views repulse me.
     
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  13. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Thank you for the input, although it doesn't sound terribly positive. the one I'm looking at was produced by the 'War Office Film Unit' in case that rings any bells.

    I'm off to trawl the Pathe and AP channels - Could save myself a chunk of change.
     
  14. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    This is an example of unused footage.



    I searched Pathe, Tunisia, unused, 1943 and that gives you lots of other suggestions.



    You get no info and have to work it out for yourself. I copied the entire IWM film catalogue listing for Normandy June-Aug so I could search it and match it to YouTube clips.

    As far as I am aware the IWM hold the originals of all film shot by all UK cameramen in WW2, The reason Pathe and other news outlets have them is because copies were given to them in WW2. The can sell copies as their own and I believe Critical Past charge around £30 for a clip,
     
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  15. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Suggestions much appreciated - am digging around now.
     
  16. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Are the originals at IWM also of poor quality ? Is there the possibility of examing them frame by frame ?
     
  17. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    The originals are actual film. As such they are as good as the condition when shot. Most should blow up into good 6x 4 at least. When I went there they had film viewing booths were your pre-ordered viewing list of reels was played. You could pause/rewind to your hearts content and when finished they changed the reel for you. Was very simple but have no idea how the new revenue-maximised system works. I think they see the ordinary bloke as a bit of nuisance and prefer the Film/TV people/Educational Inst. who order their film by the yard (eg lots of shots of German tanks advancing and some stukas diving. 10 mins of each please. Year not important -I was actually told this on the quiet by a member of staff) as the money is much better.
     
    Rich Payne likes this.
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

  19. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Interesting.

    I've just received a reply to my enquiry and the lady writing says that the film I am interested in has not already been digitised, but a DVD copy can be made - it isn't very clear whether she's suggesting that it will be digitised and then sent on DVD, or somebody will 'point a camera at the screen', as it was expressed upthread. I shall have to write back and enquire.

    The pleasant part is that the cost is £25+ VAT given the conditions that a) I have some family connection to the footage (my grandfather's battalion is featured) and b) It is unlicensed and may not be uploaded, reproduced or used for anything other than private viewing, c) it will have a IWM watermark discretely added.

    Assuming they follow the same practise as their images department, the VAT can be waived if I pay with overseas credit card.

    This, by the way, is what I'm considering:

    Title: [MISCELLANEOUS SHOTS] [Allocated]
    Film Number: AYY 424/1
    Summary: Various scenes taken during the First Army attack in the Medjez El Bab area.
    Date: 1943-05-06

    Description: An anti-aircraft barrage over Souk El Arba and Souk El Khemis aerodromes. Bombers returning from a raid on enemy lines. Transport of various kinds moving into position for attack at dawn. Churchill tanks moving up to support the infantry. Churchills on the road at first light. A 25 pounder gun on a Valentine chassis with ammunition trunks on their way to the front. The first prisoners being brought in and kept on the move by bayonet point. Two German First Aid men bring in a wounded British soldier on a stretcher. Churchill tanks with infantry of the 1/4th Essex Regiment and the 4th Indian Division advancing behind them. Infantry and Churchill tanks advancing. Gurkhas from the machine gun battalion Company D in a German machine gun nest which they have taken. A German machine gun. A dead German soldier in a slit trench. A smokescreen is laid for the infantry. A British soldier examining a new German anti-tank gun. Panning shot of infantry of the 1/4th Essex Regiment and 4th Indian Division. Infantry and tanks. A large group of prisoners taken by the 1/4th Essex Regiment.

    Running Time: Footage: 450 ft; Running time: 5 mins
    Production Company, Cast and Credits: War Office Film Unit; Courtney (Sergeant) (cameraman)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  20. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Charley

    I did purchase about an hours worth of their film some while ago, they put it on a DVD and it comes, or mine did, with a rough description of the scenes. You can play the DVD in your PC or on the TV via a player, you can therefore operate it like any other and pause scenes etc.

    Is it good quality? Well I think they do a bit more than re-filming it with a camera, but you should remember it was taken over 70 years ago with the equipment of the time. To be honest, if the scene was shot in comparative safety, then I feel that the quality is very good. Is it as good quality as say the Pathe news in post #14, yes some of it is.

    Unlike a lot of stills, which are staged ‘action’ shots, a good amount of footage is live, this does mean, quite naturally, that the cameraman kept a safe distance away, and therefore some is taken from a fair range.

    If you are researching what your relative did in the war then what the heck. The only photos I have of my father are those posed group ones taken at various stages of the war, so to get something of the regiment moving and in action is, in my opinion, well worth the money, and my 59m 24 secs worth was a lot more than £25.

    While you are at it just make sure you have thoroughly searched the IWM archives for anything relevant as I would imagine it would be better value to get it all in one go.
     
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