Hello I need some help as I'm new to all this and unsure if I have posted it in the correct place, i recently found out that my maternal grandfather was Italian and I am now looking for him or any information about him, he fell into British Hands in 1941 and was detained in Camp 308 Egypt, he was then sent to 5 subsequent camps the last being Camp 101 in Glandulas, Newtown, Montgomeryshire Wales. I have been in touch with the ICRC in Geneva who have been great and they sent me his details and details of who to contact should i choose to look for him and his family. On this sheet they have his rank down as Cap. Magg and his Unit as Sirte Div.70. Fant.Rgt.2. Bn. 1. Coy : does anyone know what all that means? any help would be greatly received thanks Heather x :thankyousign:
Heather Welcome to the forum It could read as follows Sirte is a place in Libya 70 Div Infantry Regiment, 2nd Battalion 1 Coy
thank you he was captured in Tobruk in Libya so I can assume he was stationed over there as I'm sure I read somewhere that Italy had several divisions composed of troops native to libya that were commanded by Italian officers. I dont suppose you have any idea about the rank? ive tried googling it but im not coming up with anything.
Heather - his rank appears to that of Captain - or as the Italians would say CAPITAN - and very few native Lybians fought - anywhere - they were more adept at stealing and suddenly appearing from nowhere in all the desert - to trade their 1914 laid eggs for cigarettes... Cheers
The Italian 61st Division was the Sirte Division. 61 Infantry Division Sirte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 61 Infantry Division Sirte Order of battle 69. Ancona Infantry Regiment 70. Ancona Infantry Regiment 43. Sirte Artillery Regiment also http://gregpanzerblitz.com/Italians/61Sirte.pdf
Heather - his rank appears to that of Captain - or as the Italians would say CAPITAN - and very few native Lybians fought - anywhere - they were more adept at stealing and suddenly appearing from nowhere in all the desert - to trade their 1914 laid eggs for cigarettes... Cheers Capitano, in Italian. For further information: Regio Esercito - Divisione Sirte "1941 - In gennaio la Divisione Sirte è schierata ad oriente della piazzaforte di Tobruk e sostiene violenti combattimenti contro forze nettamente superiori. La sera dell'8 gennaio, alcuni reparti della divisione vengono isolati dalle restanti forze dell'armata in ripiegamento e vengono sottoposti per più giorni ad intensi e logoranti bombardamenti. Dopo il 20 la situazione diventa presto insostenibile, soprattutto per la caduta di alcuni capisaldi che consente agli attaccanti di dilagare alle spalle della prima linea di schieramento e di investire la seconda linea di difesa. Il 23 gennaio tutti i centri di difesa attiva cessano ogni resistenza e la Divisione viene considerata sciolta in zona di operazioni." "1941 - Dopo aver preso parte alla difesa della piazzaforte di Tobruk, viene sciolto, per eventi bellici, il 23 gennaio a causa delle ingenti perdite subite." "1941. In January, the Divisione Sirte has been marshalled eastward of the Tobruk fortress, affording heavy fightings against clearly greater forces. On the evening of January the 8th, some parts of this Division were isolated from the remaining forces of the retreating army and were heavily bombed for many days. After January, 20th the situation became indefensible, above all because of the fall of several strongholds, allowing the enemy to attack the first lines from behind, then storming the second defense line. On January, 23th all the main defense centers ceased to resist and the whole Division was proclaimed dissolved on the battlefield". "1941. After defending the fortress of Tobruk, the 70° Reggimento Ancona was proclaimed dissolved for war causes on January 23td, because of the great losses sufferred."
You are welcome, For further info, you may write a letter to these addresses: Esercito Italiano- Norme per la consultazione And above all, the last one: MINISTERO DELLA DIFESA DIREZIONE GENERALE DELLE PENSIONI MILITARI, DEL COLLOCAMENTEO AL LAVORO DEI VOLONTARI CONGEDATI E DELLA LEVA 7^ Divisione - Stato Civile e Albo d'Oro Via Sforza, 4/b 00184, ROMA It concerns the bureau for informations concerning former POWs or war victims. I really wish you good luck and, if you need translation from the Italian, you just have to ask for. Marco
Could I just point out that Cap. Magg. is an abbreviation for Caporale Maggiore, the modern spelling is caporalmaggiore. The equivalent rank in the British army is Corporal (two stripes). The next lower rank Caporale is Lance Corporal (one stripe). The colour of the stripes was changed from black to red when Italy entered WW2. The full NCO grades are set out here Esercito Italiano- Sottufficiali e Truppa
Lei è stato molto utile grazie Marco, I hope this is correct as my Italian is awful You are welcome, For further info, you may write a letter to these addresses: Esercito Italiano- Norme per la consultazione And above all, the last one: MINISTERO DELLA DIFESA DIREZIONE GENERALE DELLE PENSIONI MILITARI, DEL COLLOCAMENTEO AL LAVORO DEI VOLONTARI CONGEDATI E DELLA LEVA 7^ Divisione - Stato Civile e Albo d'Oro Via Sforza, 4/b 00184, ROMA It concerns the bureau for informations concerning former POWs or war victims. I really wish you good luck and, if you need translation from the Italian, you just have to ask for. Marco
Thank you Peter I'm now slowly begining to put all the pieces of my jigsaw together Could I just point out that Cap. Magg. is an abbreviation for Caporale Maggiore, the modern spelling is caporalmaggiore. The equivalent rank in the British army is Corporal (two stripes). The next lower rank Caporale is Lance Corporal (one stripe). The colour of the stripes was changed from black to red when Italy entered WW2. The full NCO grades are set out here Esercito Italiano- Sottufficiali e Truppa
Lei è stato molto utile grazie Marco, I hope this is correct as my Italian is awful You are absolutely welcome, dear Heather, And your Italian sentence was correct. If you want to write a short letter to the above mentioned bureau, I may translate it in Italian for you, just to be sure they'll understand it..
