Fursty Ferret, In depth My father Corporal Joseph Smallman was in the same camp at Plemo as your grandfather and was possibly in the same party as 120 prisoners were moved from Bergamo to the camp at Plemo.The camp is stated in pencil on the MI 9 report as being PG56? We visited both PG62 in Bergamo (Lallio) where there is a memorial garden adjacent to the site of the camp and eventually we found PG56? at Plemo with the aid of an Italian friend and the chance meeting with an elderly Italian gentleman in Oct 2009 which I have pictures who was 11 years of age in those days. The gentleman’s nick name was ''Drill'' given to him by the British soldiers and the meeting was quite emotional as he thanked us for reviving some happy memories from those troubled times. Lets say someone was guiding us, as prior to this meeting we had also met up with a lady in her ninety's and her family who helped dad during his escape who had been found by my friend prior to us arriving. Dad at first he went up into the mountains and travelled south down the Valle Camonica were he met the family high above Fucine as I believe he intended to get to the allied lines however the area was quickly occupied by the Nazis after the armistice as reports state they flooded into the country so he headed back along the valley and then North across the valley into Switzerland. I am sure that the Plemo POW camp was originally a labour camp as dad worked on an irrigation canal which is the size of our navigational canals in the UK and he mentioned a tunnel (Gallery) which is also there and they were not allowed in and I vaguely recall there was some sort of restriction on N.C.Os. It was later taken over by the Nazi's who used it as a transit camp of which I have a paper written by Professor Pedorsoli who I have tried to get in touch with to no avail at the moment as the paper is post 08/09/1943 I need some help also on this story as well from Bamboo Someone accompanied dad also to the farm above Fucine as the family have a small piece of paper on which dad had written his name and his address on and the other only his name but as in Italian. The family assure me that he was not Italian as my father and the chap only spoke in English. The signature was of a Giovanni Dallamore (John Dallamore) is it in the WO 392 POW log There were also Greek Cypriots in the camp which also formed part of dads story which was collaborated by ''drill''. My research continues as another family helped Dad as he collapsed when he swam a river as the Nazis occupied all the bridges. The river was icy cold which could have been the Oglio as he passed through Shilpario on his way to Switzerland on the report I have. Lots of Italians headed into the mountains when the Nazi's arrived including ''Drill'' and his family who also had a small farm stead where they aslo helped escaping prisoners. My research continues and bye the way the Lady who helped dad was awarded a certificate for helping allied prisoners as dad mentioned her name as giving assistance in his report signed by Field Marshall Alexander Trevor, I have emailed you some details re John Dallamore, and have made contact with his Great Niece and her husband, who is going to try and find some additional info. John Dallamore returned to the UK, and died after his return. P
Thanks Phill for all your help and look forward to contact from his family. Marco looking at the route Dad gave in his report with reference to my post above the other river he had to cross was the Adda in the area of Aprica/Tirano towards Campocologno where he crossed the border and was shot at by the Swiss guards. It could have been it that area the family helped his when he collapsed.?
Hi Trevor, To be sincere, I don't know. I think we need at least a good map. Of course we may suppose the speed of a man on walking, but we also have to consider that on mountain, as well as on a wild land, everybody would walk slowly.
Varasc You can look at the Istituto Geografico Militare 1:25000 maps on line. Used to use them for trekking and they should be enough detailed.
Yes I used them, too - the small 1:25.000 tablets. The problem is, there will be several paths, mountain pastures, old houses etc. Mountains are living beings, not static ones. The most part of them today will probably lay in ruins. It would be quite difficult to reconstruct his exact path today.
Hi there I have just read Ray Ellis's book 'Once a Hussar'. I am really keen to find out if Ray is planning to write a follow up to this excellent book. He finishes Once a Hussar with the implication that there is more of his fascinating story to follow. Having filmed Ray I was wondering if you are in touch with him and able to let me know if this is the case? Not only I am keen to find out more about wht happened to Ray after he left Italy, but my grandfather also served with the same regiment as Ray - the 'South Notts Hussars' following the decimation of the regiment of the Battle of Knightsbridge and would interested to see if Ray joined back up with his former regiment? I look forward to hearing from you. Martin
Hello FurstyFerret, I am also researching my fathers experience in Italy camp escape (Vercelli 106) and the Swiss crossing. I have a list obtained from Switzerland museum of the AIF POWs who crossed the border and the date they crossed. I may have missed it, but I cannot see any reference to your relative's name, otherwise I would search for him on this list. Also recommend wading through the following website, which bursts with stories and information relating to escaped POWs from Italy: ANZAC POW Free Men in Europe - Welcome Letter best regards, katrina
I'm searching for the inmate of one of the Italian camps, but don't know which. 131946 Harlow A.H.W. prisoner in Italy 1942-43 is the only reference I have got as to where he was. Any ideas? Thanks Matt
Hello, I have been doing a bit of research on my Grandfather's escape from Sforzacosta camp, or Camp 53. I know the general jist of the story: how he escape and the family that took him in, but I was hoping to find out more detailed information of what exactly happened, because the story he told has many gaps. His information is: Q.M.S - Hilder, E.C. 7599687. He escaped from Camp 53 on 20, September 1943. I tried to contact the National Archives about accessing some of the Escape and Evasion reports in order to try and find his name. But unfortunately it looks as though these documents are not available online. Does anyone know of any affordable researcher or have any alternative ideas on how I could access files: WO 208/3298-3327 and WO 208/5582-5583. Many thanks, Emilie If this is CC53 near Macerata I have been there (in 1983), as I went to see where my father was held. In his war diary he mentions there was a 48-hour gap between when the Italian guards deserted the camp and Paratroopers from Germany were dropped in and took over again. I often asked my father why he didn't try to escape, he said they were told to stay put. He didn't know any Italian nor knew the local geography, but he did mention that several prisoners left then, but of course many were subsequently rounded up. I will go back to my Dad's diary and check the dates. My Dad was Maurice W Brown 903 Co RASC captured also at Tobruk. He later went to near Mansfeld in Germany, liberated April 1945. In 1983 CC53 was still there, the barns then used for storage. The water-tower was still standing. It was eerie to walk around it and think of the thousands who must have been cooped up there.
Hello everyone XXXXXX here. I have a query for you all. In my callow youth I was always told by my father , god rest his soul , that he served with the Rifle Brigade in North Africa and was a Desert Rat. He said he was captured at Tobruk and transported to a camp in Northern Italy. He and 4 mates escaped by killing a guard then swimming down a mile long sewage canal. They walked down the length of the border with Greece only to walk back again and get through in nearly the same place they started from. The married man among them was killed. Now my query is this.....i've tried to look him up on various sites and have had no joy...it seems that he didnt exist..!! Can anyone help me find him.....?
Hi dear, Very interesting. I am currently searching for POWs who escaped through the Aosta Valley, towards Switzerland, so I would be pleased to help you if you would provide more data. Have a nice evening.
Varasc I am presuming you are replying to my post.....if that is not the case my apologies in advance .My fathers name was Reginald Charles McDonnell....I have no other information other than he said it was freezing cold and all they were dressed in were Desert clothes.
Hi Ian, Yes, here he is from the WO392/21 files at the National Archives. Rifleman 6917399 R.C. McDonnell, held in Camp 53 Sforza Costa, near Macerata. These lists relate to the POW's as of August 1943. This is all I know or have on the subject of POW's of the Italian's. I now pass you on to the experts in this area. Good luck Steve.
If this is CC53 near Macerata I have been there (in 1983), as I went to see where my father was held. In his war diary he mentions there was a 48-hour gap between when the Italian guards deserted the camp and Paratroopers from Germany were dropped in and took over again. ...... In 1983 CC53 was still there, the barns then used for storage. The water-tower was still standing. It was eerie to walk around it and think of the thousands who must have been cooped up there. I visited in May this year and it is still very much there. If anyone is interested I have some photos - though not on this PC so will return in a few days!
Hi, I am doing our family tree John Dallamore is my late Great Uncle. I knew my late Grandad had a brother who escaped a P.O.W camp but now through this forum the missing information is invaluable to me, he sadly passed away of a heart attack at the young age of 24 in 1945 not long after returning home - His mothers maiden name was Lancaster.
You need to contact Trevor Smallman on this site . Send him a private message. He can tell you all you need to know as his father Joseph Smallman was with John Dallamore. Trevor is a good friend of mine and I will alert him to your request, Best wishes, Vitellino
Nicola's ancestors - Trevor has told me that he has sent you all the information you need. That's what I like so much about this website - so much help to be had, and given too. Vitellino
Hello Springbok, I don't know whether or not you are still interested, but your grandfather is cited as belonging to the Union Jack band of partisans by fellow countryman William Nell in report WO 204/1992,The National Archives, London. Eleven other members of the band escaped into France on 10 October 1944 (Escape Reports National Archives). I have a copy of all these reports so if you would like more information please send me a private message. Another South African in the band, Sapper D.M. Lee, died in the Galisia disaster on 12 November 1944. There was a further South African in the band, described by Nell as R. Kriel, but he isn't in the list of prisoners held in Italy under the intital R. (WO392/21) Regards, Vitellino
