Is this asking for trouble-EBAY Grave Stone

Hi,
I noticed this on ebay and find it quite troubling,the seller has obtained it by their description and account in a most legitimate way ..BUT...if this sells could it not open the floodgates for more unscrupulous persons to obtain other such items in a more.. er.. direct way?

Clifford

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-British-Memorial-Marker-block-of-Portland-stone-damaged-from-Belgium-Ypres-/111062121006?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item19dbd17a2e#ht_480wt_958

 

Rescued? Or taken without consent? Not very clear how he came by it, when I get home I, ll ask the seller for more info.

 

Does anyone know or can find put what CWGC policy is for the disposal of old headstones?

 

E-bay need reporting, for allowing this to go ahead on its site, its absolutly DISGUSTING

just looked at his site he has 18 items for sale 16 of them from ww1/ww2 era, could be all fakes, program just on today {FAKE BRITAIN} B.B.C about the fake war memoribillia being sold one-bay.

 

I can't imagine they do want you to sell them on Ebay..

 

They're replacing huge numbers at the moment in the run up to 2014. The new stones all come from France but it's highly likely that the old grave markers are sold by weight for hardcore. The stones in themselves can't really be called sacred and it would be unrealistic to retain them once replacements have been erected.

If a stone missed the crusher then it's not impossible to imagine it turning up on a construction site. It's probably passed through several hands by then and any initial agreement reagarding disposal forgotten.

It shouldn't be on eBay of course

 

i honestly dont know what to make of this, it could be genuine but don't know

 

A number of Ww1, Ww2 US & German memorial markers as well, as the headstone.
I've sent the seller a message.

 

To be fair, it would depend when this individual got the CWGC headstone badge and other grave markers.

The German ones were from cemeteries concentrated or re-organised in the 50s. Most of the markers were burnt but several local collectors obtained 100s of the wooden cross beams (named) and 1000s of the name plaques. They were given to them by VDK who were just going to dump them. These collectors have disposed of a lot, so they have been 'available' for some time.

CWGC headstone badges were never 'available' but I know of a couple of examples where CWGC staff gave people headstone badges for specific projects. Otherwise when a headstone is disposed of it is meant to be smashed up for hardcore so that this sort of thing does not happen. Having said that CWGC gardeners are only human and in locations where they are replacing a few, I have seen piles of rubble where headstone badges hadn't been smashed up (yet) - someone with a quick hand could easily have had them away, although something of this size could never be taken easily.

Having said all that, it is part of a headstone and I thought it was forbidden under eBay rules to sell headstones? (or parts thereof)

 

There was a thread on here a few years back where 3 (or 4?) headstones from 3 (or 4?) different CWGC locations had been partially broken and left in a corner of one cemetery. I was surprised they were not broken into unidentifiable fragments.

 

Two words 'Myocardial Infarction'

 

Just had a reply from the seller;

Dear steves_online_emporium,

A friend of mine rescued these from being used as hardcore in a road,about 40 yrs ago,in Belgium,.
I have pictures of the current replacements
the damage is quite often trees falling on them,or in some cases damage caused during WW2
they must be quite old,as CWGC always deface the broken ones now before dumping.and have done since just after WW2,
based on your location ,I cant believe you are seriouly interested in buying ?

Rescued? More like nicked while no-one was looking.

 

Sounds like they purloined these unofficially. Why would anyone want this anyway, unless it was a relation of some sort.

 

Do you thing CWGC should be informed? After all it was thrir property origonaly.

 

Search works on the new forum...

http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/19909-headstone-query/?hl=dumped#entry241057

 

40 yrs?
Low res photo, but it looks like a very recent replacement.

 

What does he mean, that Yorkshire is too far from Durham so you couldn't have had a relative who served with the DLI ?

 

Don't know, was puzzleing about that myself.

 

As UK based members of this forum may have noticed during a recent broadcast of the BBC TV programme 'The Antiques Roadshow' one of the articles brought in was an official War Graves wooden cross (WW1). It had been used to mark the grave of a family member who died of wounds during the Battle of the Somme.

It seems this grave marker had been offered to the family by the Imperial War Graves Commission (as the CWGC was previously called) in the 1920s when a 'proper' headstone had been erected. Apparently it was common that these wooden cross markers were offered to the next of kin, an offer that, perhaps unsurprisingly, was often not taken up by the family. Once there was no further use for these markers one presumes they would have been disposed of in some way. One may assume that when the CWGC replace a headstone it is disposed of in a manner that respects what it once stood for.

This is a link to the BBC artice about the wooden IWGC marker cross:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mj2y/features/war-grave-cross

 

A rather odd purchase, However, & I realsie that this is a dissenting opinion, if the marker has been replaced by a new marker, perhaps the old markers should be sold by the cemetary & the funds used for grounds upkeep,

Somewhat macabre transaction for rmy tastes - but markets are as markets do....