Irish Guards September 1944

Discussion in 'The Brigade of Guards' started by Glen90, Apr 5, 2014.

  1. Glen90

    Glen90 New Member

    Hi all

    We have just been to Leopoldsburg to visit the grave of my wife's uncle, Gdsman Nicholas McCormack. He was killed on 9/9/44. The family are under the impression that he was shot by a sniper having been dropped behind enemy lines. I've found the war diary entry for the day but it is pretty sketchy and only really covers where they started and finished the day. Are there any other references I could consult to try and find out more of what happened to him? It would be nice to give the family some more information as I don't think anyone else has ever done so!

    Cheers
    Glen
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I have looked in the Regiment history for any mention but not really much there to add to what you will have read in the bn war dairy.
    He is listed in the roll of honour in the back of the book.
    He was a 3rd Bn man.
    http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2109812/McCORMACK,%20NICHOLAS%20JAMES

    He wouldnt have been ''been dropped behind enemy lines.'' but maybe have been on a patrol.
    If you would like to see the pages from the history for that time let me know & I'll add them here later.

    PS I've moved thread from the 'NW Europe' to the 'Irish Guards' section of the forum.
     
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  3. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    All I can confirm is that your wife's uncle was KIA, but at least that rules out the possibility of him having been wounded on another date. This puts his death the day before the Irish Guards Group captured Joe's Bridge, discovered by 2HCR the GAD Recce unit who would dash ahead 'into the blue' and then report back. The GAD were trying to advance and find a route over the canal at the same time, so he wouldn't have been as Owen says, "dropped behind enemy lines". However, these lines would have been pretty confused - as the Germans tried to retreat while protecting their routes at the same time, inevitably pockets of enemy troops would be left behind. The Bn was asked to help Welsh Guards at Hechtel, the scene of some pretty intense fighting and later were ordered to bypass this 'crust' of resistance. So perhaps this is why the family came to believe he was behind enemy lines... there was no really clear demarcation, a lot of confusion and overall both the Allied advance and the German retreat were quite swift.

    If you are interested in tracing his steps I'd recommend that your wife apply for copy service records

    If you have any photos of him, I hope you can share here. It's always great to put a face to a name from the roll. Do you have any letters etc or any idea of which company/platoon he was in?


    Good luck.
     
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  4. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    There is an account of their journey across Belgium by a Royal Engineer officer who was attached to the Irish Guards Group, but he doesn't give specifics either of the day you are interested in.

    William Gordon CANTLAY, 14 Field Squadron, RE, attached GAD
     
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  5. Glen90

    Glen90 New Member

    Many thanks for the replies. The only information about his death we have is from what his colleagues told his family after the war. I'm not sure if there has been some confusion with Arnhem over the years. I only know that he was 3rd Bn as mentioned but not what part - it appears that they were mixed armoured and infantry units.

    The Welsh Guards war diary had more detail of the situation around Hechtel which makes for interesting reading. It's a shame I hadn't known this earlier as we were only 10 minutes up the road from where he died. It would have been nice to see the area.

    My wife is seeing her mum next week so I'll try to get more info.

    Cheers
    Glen
     
  6. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    A lot of family stories tend to suffer a little from 'chinese whispers' but they can be a great starting point to any research so do gather together as much of it as you can now.

    Operation Market Garden started on 17th September, so he wouldn't have taken part in the push towards Arnhem.

    The 3rd Battalion were infantry and the 2nd Battalion Irish Guards were the armoured battalion. They were reorganised into the Irish Guards Battle Group before the push on to Brussels, before that the 3rd Bn was fighting alongside elements of the 1st Armoured Bn Coldstream Guards, in Normandy. They'd all learned from their experiences in Normandy that closer infantry/armour formations were required and that is why these Battle Groups were formed up.

    Maybe you'll be able to go back again, this time armed with a bit more background, but copy service records are the way to go to sort out dates - joining up, training, when posted to Bn, when he embarked for Normandy, etc.

    Best of luck
     
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  7. Glen90

    Glen90 New Member

    Hi again

    I obtained the Form B200 from the Irish Guards archives which makes for interesting reading. Apparently he was court martialled at Borden on 13/6/44 for disobeying an order. He embarked for Normandy the next day and then served 24 days of a 42 day custodial sentence, presumably in France (34 RHV ?). Sadly he only survived 17 days after release.

    The regimental archivist said that all his other documents were transferred to the Veterans Agency in 1955. Having looked at their website it just links back to the gov.uk standard application forms for requesting information. Is this the normal route to get information from them and what documents are they likely to hold?

    Cheers
    Glen
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Glen

    I have a copy of the Battalions 1944 diary. Its not that thick in the big scheme of some units diaries, containing just over 200 various pages. I sell copies to help fund my own research so give me a shout if you'd like to obtain a copy.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  9. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Hi Glen,
    Try following the story on this linked thread
    Service Records destroyed by Veterans Agency?
    Verrieres was fortunate to get more paperwork - as per happy conclusion in post number 18.
     
  10. singeager

    singeager Senior Member

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