Information re an uncle who was injured in his tank at Nijmegen 1944

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Vineyard54321, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. Vineyard54321

    Vineyard54321 Member

    My great uncle Edgar Round (not sure if Edgar was his second name) enlisted in 1943. He went across on 8th June with the Royal Armoured Corps but was reassigned due to losses to the Northumberland Hussars as a Sherman driver. One of their actions involved taking out a tiger for which their tank commander got a MM.
    In late September / October 1944 they were returning to Nijmegen when they were bombed, my uncle woke up a few days later with shrapnel injuries and remained in hospital for 18 months. Only he and one other survived this encounter.
    I would like some more information as to what unit, their war diary, his service record. With the possible issues with his name I do not know anything more and unfortunately he passed a couple of years ago so I cannot ask him.
    Any help would be appreciated, I am going to Holland later in the Spring and it would be good to trace where he was.
    There is more on this on the bbc website
    BBC - WW2 People's War - "MISSING, BELIEVED KILLED IN ACTION"
    Thanks
    Kevin Williams
     
  2. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    With such sketchy details we may be sending you on wild goose chases UNLESS you obtain his Service Records.

    It doesn't seem to help that the Northumberland Hussars were an ANTI TANK regiment, equipped with field guns and NOT tanks - thus being a driver in a tank doesn't fit with the Northumberland Hussars. Makes it difficult to find the appropriate War Diaries for you to trace his footsteps (or tread)

    From your link, he was born in 1926, do you know anything further? Date of his birth in 1926, where born/living/parents?

    It also sounds as if your uncle was the victim of friendly fire, as Typhoons etc were often used for tank busting and could have mistaken the tank for enemy armour.

    Assuming he was still with the same tank commander that was awarded the MM for destroying a Tiger, and only other survivor was the Wireless Operator, then there are only 2 MM casualties in the Netherlands between 14 September and 20th October (dates to straddle your mid Sept to October dates).
    One was a Lance Serjeant J D Kennedy in 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards buried in Uden War cemetery Plot 4 Row C Grave 13; and the other was L/Sjt Charles Dale, 23rd Hussars on 16 October buried at Venray Plot II Row A Grave 13.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  3. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Hello and welcome to the forum,

    As your g/uncle was wounded his name should appear on the British Army casualty lists. These are available to search eg on the Findmypast site.
    The list should provide details of date as well as unit with which he was serving at the time.


    Copy service records can be obtained via the following link
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/request-records-of-deceased-service-personnel


    Have you any idea of the name of the man who was awarded the Military Medal?


    Good luck with your research.
     
  4. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    Perhaps Edgar was driving an M10 SP. To those not knowing the distinction it might be referred to as a tank, and I think it would probably have had the same controls as a Sherman.

    edit: or the unit was wrong.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    You need to go back to basic source information - I as yet cannot find a birth in England or Wales for someone named Edgar Round, there are a few with Rounds born between 1920 & 1930 with a middle initial 'E' and he may be one of these.

    So I would suggest you find his full name, and any details about where he was born or lived, and espceially a date of birth, otherwise we will be going around in circles

    TD
     
    Tony56 and CL1 like this.
  6. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum, Kevin.

    The regimental history ‘History Of The Northumberland Hussars Yeomanry 1924-49 (Bright), details those wounded in action at Appendix 1. There is a Gunner AE Round shown wounded on 29 November 1944.

    They are approximately another 8 men wounded that day and so, it is not possible to easily identify the other member of his crew that survived.

    The Northumberland Hussars in this instance are the 102nd (Northumberland Hussars) Anti-Tank Regiment, RA. It was the anti-tank regiment of the then famous 50th (Northumbrian) Division. They had been on the Island, which is the name given to the land between Nijmegen and Arnhem in The Netherlands. As seroster mentions, your great uncle’s Sherman tank was more likely an M10 SP (self propelled) gun. There is a photograph of one and other appropriate information in this link: Northumberland Hussars - Wikipedia

    His Divisional arm patch would have looked like my avatar.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
    Chris C and Owen like this.
  7. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    The war diary says the following for that day:

    1530 hrs bomb dropped near gate of Barracks in NIJMEGEN 2 killed and 3 wounded in 288 Battery. 3 wounded in 289 Battery.
    288 Battery pull out of their positions and concentrate in the Barracks with 107 Battery and 289 Battery prior to moving to area DEURNE to join 15 (Scottish) Division and to taking the place of 97th Anti-Tank Regiment who are to be broken up for Infantry and Royal Artillery reinforcements.

    (these batteries being sub-units of the regiment)
     
  8. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Round_wia.jpg

    Birth:
    NAME - MMN - DIST - QUARTER

    Round, Albert E - Denton - Barnsley - Dec 1926
     
  9. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    So he would be part of this gun crew (as highlighted by harkness)
    Henderson, T; and Lewis, EL (wounded but remained on duty);
    Round AE, Smallman RD (wounded). and
    TAYLOR, JAMES HENRY. Gunner. Service Number 889473. Died 01/12/1944. Aged 23
    102 (The Northumberland Hussars) Anti-Tank Regt. Royal Artillery
    Son of Charles Taylor (formerly Pte., The Lincolnshire Regt.), and Evelyn Taylor; husband of Dorothy Taylor, of Horncastle, Lincolnshire.
    Buried at SCHOONSELHOF CEMETERY. Plot I. Row B. Grave 30.
    (presumably what DNR means - Did Not Return/Recover?)
     
    Chris C likes this.
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Albert E Round
    Registration Date: 1926
    Registration district: Barnsley
    Inferred County: South Yorkshire
    Re-registration Year: 1926
    Mother's Maiden Name: Denton
    Volume Number: 9c
    Page Number: 459

    TD
     
    Vineyard54321 likes this.
  11. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    DNR usually stands for 'Date Not Recorded'
     
    Vineyard54321 likes this.
  12. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    Hang on - I'm a bit confused by that list. Are those people wounded but not killed?

    (The reason I ask is that the war diary entry indicates that men from two different batteries and thus two different crews were hit. Do we know the men from that list were all from the same battery?)
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
    Vineyard54321 and Tullybrone like this.
  13. Vineyard54321

    Vineyard54321 Member

    Thank you is this a casualty list? Also is the number 102 the vehicle or is that the number 769?
    This is brilliant information, wondering where I can go with it now?
    Kevin
     
  14. Vineyard54321

    Vineyard54321 Member

    Thank you some of his family were born in Yorkshire so that fits. I wondered whether he was adopted so that may fit too.
     
  15. Vineyard54321

    Vineyard54321 Member

    It would be interesting to identify the corporal in the crew who got the MM at Tilly, do you know how I could find that rather than searching for the service record of each member of the crew?
     
  16. Vineyard54321

    Vineyard54321 Member

    That's brilliant thank you
     
  17. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    Vehicle No's aren't listed on casualty lists.
    The 102 (A.Tk.R) reference is the unit designation. i.e. 102nd (The Northumberland Hussars) Anti-Tank Regt. Royal Artillery as identified in the previous posts.

    I think the 769 number is either a reference to a previous Casualty List, or its just an admin code/reference used to compile data for statistics etc
     
  18. ramacal

    ramacal 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA Patron

    From the book about the Northumberland Hussars by Joan Bright. A.E. Round was wounded on 29/11/1944 along with T. Henderson, & E.L. Lewis. The other casualty that was reported as DNR, J.H. Taylor was recorded as a Battle Casualty in the same book of 1/12/1944. (Edit - Motorcycle accident on 29/11/1944) - see post 20 below)

    round, ae.jpg

    round, ae - Copy.jpg

    20190215_154833 (Large).jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
    dbf, Tony56, Chris C and 1 other person like this.
  19. ramacal

    ramacal 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA Patron

    The headstone of J.H. Taylor from Schoonselhor War Cemetery in Belgium, showing the badge of the NH (The Noodles). Some cemetery photos as well.

    TAYLOR, J.H. - RA (Large).JPG

    SCHOONSELHOF 3 (Large).JPG

    SCHOONSELHOF 4 (Large).JPG

    SCHOONSELHOF CEMETERY 1 (Large).JPG

    SCHOONSELHOF 1 (Large).JPG
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
    CL1, dbf, Tony56 and 1 other person like this.
  20. ramacal

    ramacal 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA Patron

    I should have looked in the NH Book, as the full details about what happened are revealed. Some of the names are different. There were also two J.H. Taylor (A Lance Bombadier and a gunner) and were nothing to do with Mr Round.

    20190215_164948.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
    CL1, Owen and Tony56 like this.

Share This Page