Info about tank

Hi,
if it has "real parts", they have to be Brittish.
Mol is liberated by Brittish soldiers.

regards

 

Humber vehicles has the square slated radiators at the front/rear like the vehicle on the right.

 

Yes, but far more slats...and the very late model armoured cars, the only ones with rounded section mudgards, have them mounted way higher than that.

 

I do not know the answer to the question of what type of vehicle this is, but the Person on the left of the photograph appears to be a Boy judging by the short trousers and Long stockings he is wearing.

The tracks do appear to be off the ground indicating a camouflaged vehicle.

There appears to be a Canon or dummy Canon (35 mm or so) between the number 13.

It does not look like an "Archer's" front or rear.

I wonder if it is some Kind of a command vehicle made to look armoured.

Regards
Tom

 

Looks like a LVT to me, known as Water Buffalo in British service. I think the tracks appear to be 'floating due to unevenness of ground.

 

you're right tom I hadn't even seen the guy with the dummy turret and gun and yes it does look like a kid now you mention it. you must have eyes like a shithouse rat

rick

 

It's not an LVT aka Buffalo because the tracks were more towards the top than that (almost full height of the vehicle), the LVT didn't have mudguards (they would have been ripped off by the force of the water flow) and the tracks don't look scooped enough. I'm leaning towards the Archer but, having said that, the end of the vehicle we can see is wrong on a couple of points to make it an Archer!

What are the markings? Looks like 7th Armoured Division at first glance. If we can identify the Regiment then it's just a question, hopefully, of looking in the War Diary.

On a similar vein, is there any proof that the photo was taken in Mol?

 

It is a very poor 'phone' photo that does not allow any firm conclusions.



It has everything in the right place for an Archer conversion and it is impossible to tell if it has the complex shape of the Archer lower bow plate. For sure the glacis plate, if it is a one piece sloped plate, comes down way too far below the idler than any other tank I have seen.
I see what looks like 'weld lines' down both sides of the foward superstructure but there is no way such a low quality photo could show weld lines. It has 3 return rollers and the track type is that of a small central sprocket rather then an inner and outer tooth-ring type. In short it has nothing that rules out say an Archer converted to a driver test vehicle.
Then again it might be a dummy. I am not one who has to identify every single sub-type of tank so having used up all my availble curiosity will move onto other more pressing puzzles!

 

Rick,

Many, Many Moons ago, as a Police Traffic Officer, I had to regularly undergo quite rigorous eyesight tests at the Motor Driving School and I once had the very same comment made by one of the Instructors.

As I spent my later years driving a desk in Criminal Justice, reading nothing much other than files of evidence, my eyesight has steadily declined.

Specs now required for any reading or Close modelling work etc but my Long distance is still excellent .

Regards
Tom

 

Michael, actually it is indeed possible to say that this does not have the complex three section rear bulkhead of the Archer; the clue is in the lettering, whatever it says...

it SHOULD appear to our point of view to be slightly curved. to match the three-part "curve" of the Archer hull \t that point - but doesn't.

Also - and it's a moot point, really - the "vision port" is much further down towards the line between the bogies/trackguards than on an Archer.

 

The vehicle is quite narrow: compare the size of the guy looking out of the 'turret' to the vehicle width.

I've also had initial feedback from a very good contact who is a highly experienced military historian and armoured vehicle specialist. His view is that it's a dummy tank mounted on either a jeep or light truck chassis for mobility.

 

I have been wondering what vehicle It is mounted on, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an armoured car of some kind, I only say that because the drivers vision port/hatch is mounted centrally and i'm sure the reme would not modify a softskin by moving the controls. any thoughts

 

Is it possible that the vehicle is German or otherwise foreign? A lot of war booty was floating around in Europe at that time.

 

I posted this on an internal forum at work and got the following:

It looks like an Archer SPAT - the 17 pdr faces to the rear, & the suspension does look like the type that would be seen on an Archer (Valentine suspension). There appears to be a mechanic underneath. (someone else said it looked a ramp or jack underneath the front of the tank, giving it that elevated look)

The parked vehicle to the right looks like the back of a Canadian made light armoured scout vehicle (late 1944-45) which was only used (and discarded) in Europe. The Danes, Belgians and Dutch bought a heap of these as they were either a Ford or GMC motor, and they were cheap to run. (I’m guessing he is referring to a Fox, or a Humber Mk4)

 

Can we please have a better scan - flatbed scanner or photographed flat please?!

I think the main problem is scale - the similarity to an Archer (which it is not) gives an impression of size which confuses the issue - Once you get the figure at the top it becomes a much smaller vehicle.

The fact that the photo was taken after the end of the war makes it likely to be in a formerly German base opens up the possibilities to all sorts of stuff. The inscription simply adds a more cryptic element - see my earlier post.

 

Hi Dave - no, he means the Otter..."Car, Light Reconnaissance, Canadian GM MkI"...

But it has one radiator slat too many, and doesn't have the nicely-rounded front mudguards. The Otter was an obnoxious vehicle based on the same chassis as the C15 armoured lorry I mentioned at the start...and was NOT a success in direction proportion to the C15's success and popularity!

It was difficult to get into and out of...without gashing yourself!!!...stowage on board was hopeless, and however they managed it - it was anything but waterproofed LOL Whatever they did with the guttering at its various doors, apparently it drank water in the rain. Probably one of the reasons why there are so few survivors today - they all rusted out!

They originally came with one of those little conical one-man Bren Gun turrets...but these were very often removed and blanked off...in an attempt to make them weather proof LOL

 

If it is a German machine then it must be based on the Soviet T-60/T-70 series http://www.wwiivehicles.com/soviet-union/vehicle/light-tank/t-70-light-tank/t-70-light-tank-02.png

Thatis just one variant. there are dozens!

 

Hi,
I will try to send a better picture!

Wim

 

I have an Archer Manual in the post - when it arrives, I can take a good look and if there are any nice pics scan them and post them here if that would be appreciated.

Tim