Kyt, I see 5th Ind Div were in Cyprus, reckon the D-R with them? Could be 5th or 10th, both were in Cyprus for short periods. I know the 4th were around the area too but I don't know if they went to Cyprus or sent troops for training there. is this a cam net on his turban? Sikh troops man a Bren gun in the line near Villa Grande, 15 January 1944. Yes, but they were rarely used - a darker turban worked just as well. That's definately a propaganda photo. They're too clean and the turban's just a tad too tidy (notice the "lacquered" moustache?)
Compare with this Photograph No.: K 6697 Two crew members of a Sherman tank of the Scinde Horse, part of the Indian 31st Armoured Division in Iraq.
5th Division mountain gunners: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_itemId=783 5th Division at Surabaya: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_itemId=839
5th Division at Surabaya: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_itemId=839 I think they're 2nd West Yorkshire Regiment, as all the others in the 5th Ind Div who were involved were Indian. But need to double check that in the book
Knew I should have left question marks on there... No need for question marks - they were part of the 5th
Good photo in The Tiger Kills of 16th Punjab Regt at Wadi Akarit with mix of steel helmets & turbans with 4th Ind Div sign clearly visable on upper arms.
Good photo in The Tiger Kills of 16th Punjab Regt at Wadi Akarit with mix of steel helmets & turbans with 4th Ind Div sign clearly visable on upper arms. Scanned, along with the next page
just a couple of pics of 4th indian fiv, note the gurkha's meeting the yanks in tunisia, a mix of steel helmets and side caps
just found this. How Europe is Indebted to the Sikhs (Bhupinder Singh) Lt.General Sir Reginald Savory K.G.T., C.B., D.S.O., M.C. states in a letter to Mrs.G.Scott, Scientific Section, House of Commons Library: "... I have known Sikhs to pick bullets out of their turbans during and after battle. In fact the turban absorbs the shock of a bullet possibly rather better than a tin helmet. If the turban is properly tied, it will also form an effective buffer too, for instance from a toss from a motor bicycle. During World War 1, when the steel helmet was first introduced, we British Officers of Sikh Regiments tried to persuade our men to wear them, but they steadfastly refused, and have done so ever since." A letter from Major General B.W.Key, C.B., D.S.O., M.C. to Gyani Sundar Singh Sagar states: "... At the outbreak of World War II I was serving at A.H.Q. (Army Headquarters). Shortly after I was sent for by the C. in C. General Sir Robert Cassells. He asked me if the Sikh Regiment was prepared to wear steel helmets. I replied that they had not done so in World War I, that it was contrary to their religion, that we had never interfered with religious tenets, and was it worthwhile arousing strong feelings to reduce head injuries by an infinitesimal proportion? I also pointed out that the Sikh Pagri (Turban) was a very good protection in itself to head wounds. This latter point I would emphasise as regards riding motor bicycles. There is no question that the Pagri offers greater protection than an ordinary hat or cap. The reasons given above were accepted by the C. in C. India. Sikhs did not have to wear steel helmets, and I hope the same reasons will satisfy the Government." A letter from Col. H.A.Hughes, D.S.O., M.B.E., D.L., and J.P. to Gyani Sundar Singh Sagar: "Thank you for your letter of 6th August 1975 enclosing Sir Reginald Savory's letter. May I say I entirely agree with all that the General says. I was in the 2nd Royal Battalion Sikh Regiment during the Frontier Campaign of 1936-38 on the N.W.Frontier of India. My Regiment consisted entirely of Sikhs and of course they always wore the Khaki Safa (Turban to the uninitiated!) During World War II I commanded the 4/16th Punjab Regiment from the battle of El Alamein to Tunis. In this battalion I had a company of Sikhs plus hose in H.Q. Company. They all wore the Safa and I certainly had no more head wounds in this battalion than in any other battalion in which the soldiers were wearing steel helmets.
"British Pathe — (INDIAN DIVISION)" Click on the picture to bring it up ! I was looking through the 'Pathe Newsreel site ' and saw this little newsreel , Indian Troops exercising forthe Cameras , scenes include soldiers with and without turbins ,Bren Carrier Bren and a Boyes being fired . archive no. 52445
Hi all, I am interested to know what headgear the Indian troops wore. I understand it was a mix of soft hats, helmets and turbans, but am interested to find out the breakdown (ie did whole companies or battalions wear turbans or was there a mix of headgears within these units). Any information or links much appreciated! Cheers Simon At the beginning of the war all Indian troops wore headgear specific to their ethnic class even in the field. Then they were introduced to tin hats except Sikhs who refused to wear them on religious grounds and suffered consequently, many being court-martialed and sentenced to various terms of imprisonment. Later the cheesecutter pattern side cap was introduced as a field service cap. This was replaced by the double-beret. In Burma the jungle hat was in vogue. The end of the war saw the single beret being used as for walking out uniform/parade dress and the jungle hat as the cap, field service, tin hat for combat. This continued till 1966 when the Jap Cap replaced the jungle hat and the American style helmet coming in place of the tin hat. The baseball cap in disruptive pattern camouflage replaced the Jap Cap in 1987. The Sikhs retained their distinctive turban for all kinds of wear throughout.
Then they were introduced to tin hats except Sikhs who refused to wear them on religious grounds and suffered consequently, many being court-martialed and sentenced to various terms of imprisonment. Crikey, us Brits never learn do us?
Thanks guys for the quick replies! Gerry, I guess my question is how were the Sikhs organised? Were they integrated with other Indian troops, or did they form seperate companies or battalions who would all be in turbans? Thanks again Simon Sikhs had their own distinctive units of infantry like the Sikh Regiment and the Sikh Light Infantry which were composed of 100% Sikhs. Some artillery regiments were also 100% Sikh. Others units from armoured corps, infantry, artillery, engineers, signals, combat support, combat service support etc had Sikhs in proportions ranging from 75% to 10%. Whether serving in a 100% Sikh unit or one in which Sikhs formed 10 or even 5%, all Sikh soldiers wore turbans at all times.
Scanned, along with the next page The 16th Punjab Regiment had a class composition of 25% Sikhs 25% Dogra Hindus and 50% Punjabi Mussalmans. The Bn HQ being a mixed sub-unit would have troops from all 3 classes.
Later the cheesecutter pattern side cap was introduced as a field service cap. This was replaced by the double-beret. In Burma the jungle hat was in vogue. The end of the war saw the single beret being used as for walking out uniform/parade dress and the jungle hat as the cap, field service, tin hat for combat. Indian soldiers in Burma also used a legionnaires type cap with neck protection like those worn by two soldiers on the picture Also I have impression that 17th Dogra Regiment had its own type of the side cap (at list on the pictures here it looks different than standard British cap). Welcome to the forum
First time I've seen such headgear in the context of WW 2. Looks a lot like the post-1966 pattern field service cap of the IA, popularly known as the Jap Cap, with the addition of neck protection. The soldier in the middle is obviously a Sikh. The other two ? Are they really Indians ? Could be Chinese. Do we have a enlargement to check on the detail ? The Dogras have their won regimental side cap, which they still use in informal dress. A bit like the Gandhi Topi used by freedom fighters and politicians !
