Indian Army and Burma

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by alan8376, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. alan8376

    alan8376 Member

    I seem to be dipping my toe in complicted help to the Asia Continent lately!

    Here is one which started with the Boer Wars and now moved on the family history later ie. the Indian and Burma War .connections.. Please note! I do not have membership of Ancestery subscription site. So what you recommend or guidence I might have not thought about.

    Going for his Military Record. Which one and where will be the task for the niece who resides not in UK.


    I will slowly add information. It is inconnection with an 'Indian Uncle', who was involved firstly in the Boer War. You will see his medals and data in a photo I will add today..
    Captain Leslie, Francis Gibson. His niece seeks clarification on his part in the Burma War. Was he there?
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  2. Robert-w

    Robert-w Well-Known Member

    For clarity
    Are you referring to WW2 or the Third Anglo Burma War of 1885 or the anti Dacoit campaigns that lasted into the 1890s?
     
  3. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    I am confused as you show details of the service of Major Joseph Francis Gibson and then ask a question about Leslie Frances Gibson. Is it a different fellow or am I missing something?
     
  4. alan8376

    alan8376 Member

    Sorry Robert-w. I have no knowledge of those apart from WW2.
     
  5. alan8376

    alan8376 Member

    Sorry,

    I have corrected it to Captain Leslie Fracis Gibson.

    Sorry, bad start eh?

    Thanks Alan
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  6. Robert-w

    Robert-w Well-Known Member

    So what is the relevance of the Queens South African Medal and the Sudan medals which are more or less of the same period as the earlier Burma campaigns?
     
  7. alan8376

    alan8376 Member

    I am attaching two details produced about Major Gibson.I know nothing of the sources, nor of they being correct!

    Maybe someone has an eye for details of the details of the research data. I suspect the type of paper may indicate a time frame?
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    He was born in 1870, so by the start of WW2 in 1940 he would be 70 years old - 75 by the time war ends - not sure he would have been in Burma during WW2, or are you/she thinking of another Burma War??

    TD

    Born 1870
    Died 1952
     
  9. Robert-w

    Robert-w Well-Known Member

    From the sheets you attach one can only conclude that your man served in the WW1 campaign in German East Africa and the South African and Sudan medals belonged to his father and including them in the enquiry only serves to muddy the waters. There were a number of officers who served in the Sudan and then moved on to the South African War (note the sequence) including W S Churchill. What is the reason why you think he may have served in Burma twenty three years later?
     
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I note you call him Assistant Surgeon

    Joseph Francis Gibson 1912 INDIAN SUBORDINATE MEDICAL DEPARTMENT SENIOR ASSISTANT SURGEON

    Indian Army Quarterly List for 1 January 1912
    Name: Joseph Francis Gibson
    Birth Date: 11 Oct 1870
    First Commission Date: 24 Jun 1908
    Notes: Asst. to Surgn.,1st. Dist., Madras
    Page Number: 481a
    Rank: Assistant Surgeons
    Company: Indian Medical Service

    I would guess if he was that good he would not be an Assistant or even Senior assistant for long


    Joseph Francis Gibson
    1870-1952
    Marriage:
    Katherine Clarke
    1884-1919

    8 Children

    TD

    There is a private family tree on Ancestry and follows the line of Catherine Clarke his wife
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  11. Mouna Mounayer

    Mouna Mounayer New Member

    Hi Alan, thank you for helping me find details about my family.
    My great grandfather is Major Joseph Francis Gibson born in India on the 11 October 1870
    His son my Great Uncle Leslie Francis Gibson born 6 July 1916 was a Captain in the Burma Campaign. I would like to find out about his military record and what regiment he was in.
    Thank you for any help you can give me in this matter.
     
  12. Mouna Mounayer

    Mouna Mounayer New Member

    That is my family tree that you are seeing on Ancestry. I am looking for the military records of both my great grandfather Major Joseph Francis Gibson and his son Captain Leslie Francis Gibson. Joseph Francis was in the Sudan with Kitchener and in South Africa notably he was taken prisoner at LadySmith. I don't know anything about the military career of my Great Uncle Captain Leslie Francis Gibson who fought in Burma in WW2.
    Glad of any help or pointers.
    Best
    Mouna
     
  13. Mouna Mounayer

    Mouna Mounayer New Member

    Hi Robert
    Slight misunderstanding, I was asking after my Great Uncle, Leslie Francis Gibson (Joseph Francis Gibson's son) who was a Captain during the Burma Campaign in WW2. I want to find out his military record and what regiment (s) he served in.
    Best
    Mouna
     
  14. alan8376

    alan8376 Member

    Thanks Mouna<
    You see what I mean! Best you put the details in ! I'll assist you putting photos etc.

    Alan
     
  15. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    To help others identify his regiment I can confirm from passenger records that his occupation was medical practitioner, and in 1952 arrived in the UK to a Swindon address. I would have expected either the Indian or British armies to have placed him in a medical Corps or similar to utilise his medical training.

    Nothing found in the Army Lists on ancestry for WW2, nor the London Gazette online index.

    The document in post 1 shows his father was in the Indian Army's Indian Medical Service, which did not finish till 1947.

    His naturalization certificate from 1959 is at Kew, but any associated paperwork where he may have stated his WW2 service would probably be subject to a 100 year rule.
    Certificate Number: R1/27623 . Name: Leslie Francis Joseph Gibson . Date of Birth: 6... | The National Archives

    Do you have any photos of him in uniform ?
     
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I assume you have a copy of
    Certificate Number: R1/27623 . Name: Leslie Francis Joseph Gibson . Date of Birth: 6... | The National Archives
    Reference: HO 334/499/27623
    Description:
    Certificate Number: R1/27623.
    Name: Leslie Francis Joseph Gibson.
    Date of Birth: 6 July 1916.
    Country of Nationality or Birth: India.
    City or Town of Birth: [unspecified].
    Date of Certificate: 22 September 1959.
    Home Office Reference: G 84456.
    Date: 1959 Sept 22
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew
    Legal status: Public Record(s)
    Closure status: Open Document, Open Description

    It may or may not contain details of his service

    TD
     
  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  18. alan8376

    alan8376 Member

    I have deleted and amended incorrect info I posted earlier .
    If there are still obvious wrongs? Then please tell me! I'll change/ delete them. I don't want following new readers to be sent down a false trail!

    Note
    : Mouna knows I have a collection of docs from our earlier correspondance which covered some Gibson named persons from earlier in history, which are not proven to be the same family Gibson sourced from 'The Asiatic Journal'

    If Mouna requests any of the docs/ journal cuttings I have on file. I will submit the URL etc for her posts

    Thanks
    Alan
     
  19. Maureene

    Maureene Well-Known Member

    I looked in the Index of Indian Army List For July - 1942 but there was no entry for L F Gibson
    Indian Army List For July - 1942 : Authority Of The Council : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
    You could look in editions for other years, Indian Army List online - FIBIwiki
    however you would expect that he would have appeared in the London Gazette. travers1940 mentions the London Gazette online index, not too sure what that is , but you can search the London Gazette at
    The Gazette | Official Public Record...

    What evidence do you have that he was in the Indian Army, and a Captain and in Burma.?

    Could he have been in the Air Force? Or the The Army in Burma Reserve of Officers ( A.B.R.O).
    ABRO Overview

    However, if he was in one of these, you would still expect that he would have appeared in the London Gazette

    As travers1940 said, you would expect that he would have served as a doctor, if he did serve. Perhaps he worked as a doctor in a civil capacity, but if that was the situation, was is the evidence that he was in Burma?

    Regarding the father who was in the Subordinate Medical Department, see the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Apothecary (an earlier name for an Assistant Surgeon) for information how to research a person's career. https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Apothecary

    Cheers
    Maureen
     
  20. Rothy

    Rothy Well-Known Member

    I've looked in the Burma Army List for July 1941 (actually the Burma Defence Services List) and that for 1943. There is no L.F. Gibson listed in the Army in Burma Reserve of Officers (A.B.R.O.).

    The London Gazette captured most of those who received an A.B.R.O. commission but not all.

    Doctors who were working in Burma or were citizens of Burma were taken into the Army and in many cases the vehicle used to give them a commission was to do so via the A.B.R.O. scheme. Such medical officers were then identified with A.B.R.O. being given an 'M' suffix thus; A.B.R.O.(M).

    I've captured a few A.B.R.O.(M) officers from war diaries who are not otherwise listed in either the Burma Army List or the London Gazette. Sadly, Gibson is not one I've come across.

    Steve
     

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