Incorrect CWGC Headstones

These are the details I have of the incorrect entries I am trying to get changed:-

WAR DIARY ENTRY from 102 LAA REGIMENT

2ND JULY 1944 - I TROOP, 338 BTY SUFFERED CASUALTIES FROM ENEMY SHELLING. ONE OR KILLED AND 3 OR WOUNDED.

CWGC ENTRY


Name: SWINGLER, KENNETH WILSON
Initials: K W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Gunner
Regiment/Service: Royal Artillery
Unit Text: 338 Bty., 102 (The Northumberland Hussars) Lt. A.A. Regt.
Age: 29
Date of Death: 02/07/1944
Service No: 4808621
Additional information: Son of Sydney Sendall Swingler and Annie Elizabeth Swingler, of Louth, Lincolnshire; husband of Edith Swingler, of Louth.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. A. 3.
Cemetery: RANVILLE WAR CEMETERY

In the CWGC details, 338 Battery are shown in the unit text. (336, 337 and 338 Batteries are on record as being the batteries of 102 LAA Regiment. Similarly, 338 Battery have never been a battery of 102 (Northumberland Hussars) Anti-tank Regiment).

Unit text says 102 (Northumberland Hussars) Lt AA Regt. This is incorrect as the Northumberland Hussars were an anti-tank regiment.

K SWINGLER’S SERVICE NUMBER IS THAT OF A SOLDIER OF THE LINCOLNSHIRE REGIMENT, CONVERTED TO 102 LAA IN DECEMBER 1941.

WAR DIARY ENTRY OF 102 LAA REGIMENT.

24TH OCTOBER 1944 at 21-00HRS - LIEUT. C.J. LeRue (158380) and one OR killed by mine.

CWGC RECORD.

Name: WARBURTON, EDWIN
Initials: E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Gunner
Regiment/Service: Royal Artillery
Unit Text: 338 Bty., 102 (The Northumberland Hussars) Lt. A.A. Regt.
Age: 36
Date of Death: 24/10/1944
Service No: 1744862
Additional information: Husband of Doris Warburton, of Tyldesley, Lancashire. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: V. A. 8.
Cemetery: LEOPOLDSBURG WAR CEMETERY

(Lieut CJ Le Rue's details at CWGC are correct).

In the CWGC details, 338 Battery are shown in the unit text. (336, 337 and 338 Batteries are on record as being the batteries of 102 LAA Regiment. Similarly, 338 Battery have never been a battery of 102 (Northumberland Hussars) Anti-tank Regiment).

Unit text says 102 (Northumberland Hussars) Lt AA Regt. This is incorrect as the Northumberland Hussars were an anti-tank regiment.

I know that none of the above are conclusive evidence, but that is all I have.

Thanks for following this thread.

Regards - Robert

 

Has anyone found incorrect information on a headstone and tried to get it amended.

2 Men of my Dad's regt are recorded as being 102 Anti-Tank Regt, RA and should be 102 LAA Regt. I've already contacted the CWGC and got the impression it was too much hassle for them to do anything.

Should I just leave it alone.
Hi ramacal, I,ve been doing voluntary photography for several years for The War Graves Photographic Project, along with hundreds of others worldwide, and have come across several headstones with incorrect information, which is reported to CWGC by the WGPP. I spoke to a CWGC maintenance guy once about it as he was in one of the cemeterys I was doing, and he said that it was normally corrected when the headstone was replaced, unless it was the completely wrong information. You could contact the WGPP or search their site and see if they have his headstone recorded and if so point out that the info. is incorrect. They are sharing the CWGC stand at the Who Do You Think You Are exhibition at Olympia Feb. 20 to 22cd. Have a look at their site and look at the newsletters as you may find some help there. I hope this is useful to you,regards dovermarine

 

Thanks for that Dovermarine.

I am tempted to make time to go up to Olympia and visit the stand you mention. Sometimes a talk with someone face to face can achieve a lot more.

I have a family history query I'm stuck on, so I might get lucky on both counts.

Regards - Robert

 

LOL lost myself too

What I was saying is that there is a GP with No headstone nothing and you ask the CWGC about that and they say family wishes. The family said no to a CWGC headstone and the only way to find the soldier is because of his Mother who is down the side of the grave.

TomTAS

 

Ramacal - looks like a database error to me, however the history of 102 LAA/ATK is a little more complex and I think this is where the error arises. See:

RA 1939-45 102 LAA/ATk

RA 1939-45 102 LAA

This shows the original 102 LAA was formed from the Northumberland Hussars in Feb 1940. It was disbanded in Feb 41 and became 102 ATK. A new 102 LAA was formed from 7 Lincolns in Dec 41. So there was a "102 (The Northumberland Hussars) Lt. A.A. Regt." but these men were not part of it with that name at the time they died, as you know. I suspect the unit name on CWGC's only allows for this one name, and that is where the error started. I presume they don't have a North'ld Hussars badge on their grave?

 

Hi Paul

When I started my research in 2004, that bit of evidence threw me. I've researched the entire period and nailed every piece to determine which was right and wrong in relation to the unit my Dad served in.

When 102 A/Tk and LAA existed together, 274 battery (or A Battery) of 102 (Northumberland Hussars) was the LAA bit. They split off from them in April 1941 to come under command 15 LAA Regiment, RA. From that point, 102 (Northumberland Hussars) became purely Anti-Tank and were part of 50th Northumbrian Division from then until they were disbanded.

This I got from the excellent book written by Joan Bright in 1949 (History of the Northumberland Hussars Yeomanry 1924-49).

It was in December 1941 that 7th Lincolns became 102 LAA Regiment with 336, 337 and 338 Batteries

A visit to the library at The RA Museum at Woolwich also put me on the right track.

The graves I've mentioned do have the NH badge on their headstones. NH had war office approval to keep the badge and their name within the RA titles.

Thanks again.

Robert

 

Hi ramacal, one of my wifes uncles ,Hugh Brownson was in (H Troop) 274 Northumberland Hussars) Bty. 25 LAA Regt. R.A. and was killed 6/10/1944 along with his mate. he,s at Jonkerbos cemetery. Theres a site, The Garrison , that have recreated one of these batterys and if you visit the site and click on the history tab and choose 25 LAA Regt. you can print off a bit of history on them that you may find useful, regards Derek.

 

Dovermarine

Many thanks for your suggestion on the War Graves Photographic website. I've found all kia for my Dad's regiment on there.

I've copied a page from the Northumberland Hussars for you with your wife's uncle on the Roll of Honour. His mate looks to be Lance-Bombadier A.W. Hodkinson. He is the only other 274 Battery KIA on that date. Both names are on this page.

Thanks again - Robert

 

Dovermarine

Many thanks for your suggestion on the War Graves Photographic website. I've found all kia for my Dad's regiment on there.

I've copied a page from the Northumberland Hussars for you with your wife's uncle on the Roll of Honour. His mate looks to be Lance-Bombadier A.W. Hodkinson. He is the only other 274 Battery KIA on that date. Both names are on this page.

Thanks again - Robert
Thank you Robert for the copy, it will go with the rest of the information I have. It seems strange that I have had a lot of info all off a sudden about Hugh, his grandaughter contacted us 3 weeks ago out of the blue, and sent us a pic. of him(desert gear) and a copy off a page from a book that describes him and his friends deaths. She also sent us a copy of a letter her gran got from his sgt. saying how sorry they all were.He had 3 brothers, one ,Thomas, who died with HMS Welshman, age 18, 1943,the other 2 were to young for the war. We got a lot of info. about him as well,and it was researching them that got me involved in the WGPP. Once again many thanks Derek.

 

Derek

If you would like some details from the book I've got, let me know and I'll post some for you. It is fairly detailed and gives some idea of the actions 274 Battery was involved in up to when your Wife's Uncle was kia in 1944.

The book was printed in a very limited quantity, so the chances of seeing it are very remote.

Let me know.

Regards - Robert

 

Derek

If you would like some details from the book I've got, let me know and I'll post some for you. It is fairly detailed and gives some idea of the actions 274 Battery was involved in up to when your Wife's Uncle was kia in 1944.

The book was printed in a very limited quantity, so the chances of seeing it are very remote.

Let me know.

Regards - Robert
Hello Robert, I don,t know the title of the book his grandaughter has but she sent us copies of pages 340 and 341 that listed the action that caused their deaths.You may have the same book but we would be interested in any info about his battery.I found one history of the NH Div but it was priced at £215. As I said we would be interested in any info, regards Derek.

 

Derek

His Granddaughter has the same book as I've got. Pages 340 & 341. Here is a copy of the spine with the title and author.

Regards - Robert

 

Derek

His Granddaughter has the same book as I've got. Pages 340 & 341. Here is a copy of the spine with the title and author.

Regards - Robert
Thank you Robert, this is the one that was on abebooks for £215. I,ll get all the info from her now, and thanks for your kind offer, Regards Derek.