In Kew today (it's an air conditioned paradise as London is hot and sticky outside) with 2/6 East Surreys War Diary. Entry for 9/12/1939 says, "104 Immatures and conducting party left for Aylsham Norfolk and posted to 45th Searchlight Regiment" Anyone know what that's about?
Brian, I've seen pre-BEF diaries which refer to those too young for overseas service being rapidly posted away prior to embarkation. Those who had joined under the National Service Act 1939 had to be 20 before they could be sent overseas. Was it 18 1/2 years for those who had volunteered earlier ?
Quote from page 10 of ''Private Young's War '' by Geoff Young. The War Office apparently had a rule that anyone under the age of eighteen on 1st October 1939 could only serve in a Home unit. No doubt because Front Line units - as the 4th Wilts had now become - were liable to serve abroad at short notice. Much to my consternation , this ruling , because of my age at the time, affected me. ... .... on the 12th December 1939 , I was transferred to the Royal Engineers Searchlight School at Westbourne Emsworth in Hampshire and there , together with about nine hundred other young soldiers from a variety of regiments we embarked on a three months course in basic military training and anti-aircraft defence . He was later (14 months later ) claimed by his older brother & returned to 4th Wilts
I'm currently studying 12 Division; it's creation as a throw-off of 44 Division in the Home Counties Area (Kent, Surrey, Sussex) and the role of its component units in UK Home Forces after its disbandment due to heavy losses in France. Before leaving for France, the Division created a unit known as "Infantry Details" (WO 166/447) that comprised immatures and others not going overseas. However, the attached paragraph from p108 of Gen Sir Frederick Pile's 1949 book "Ack-Ack" explains how Anti-Aircraft Command had become a dumping ground for TA immatures; it may be that 2/6 East Surreys were playing the game and offloading their younger recruits who couldn't go overseas. See WO 197/98 for a report from an angry CO of 2/6 East Surreys that his ill-equipped and untrained battalion was thrown into battle when they were only in France to undertake Lines of Communication work and basic training. He is, however, relieved that his men escaped the heavy losses suffered by other units of 12 Division. Hope this helps! - Pete
Thank you everyone - great stuff as usual. I had an inkling about the age limit for going overseas - but we must have had a lot of searchlight operators?
Hi, I'm sure you could enlist in TA at age 17yrs so a fair proportion of pre National Service Act TA as well as regular army young soldier volunteers would be effected. Steve Y
Yes - my dad volunteered but in January 1940 he wasn't 17 yet, so they shipped him off the Boys' Service where he didn't actually join the Army proper until June 23 1941, his 18th birthday.
I can't recall the specifics (been a while since I researched my book, my notes are in a closet) but the same thing happened in the 50th and 23rd divisions in 1939-40. Many immatures were passed from 50th Div first-line battalions to their 23rd Div duplicates, and then left behind when the latter also went to France.
Looked this up TTH; from 'The Gateshead Gurkhas' (Moses). "On the 4th September [1939] changes were made to the composition of the battalion... A number of men who had joined the 9th Battalion [Durham Light Infantry, 151st Infantry Brigade, 50th (Northumbrian) Division] were transferred to this second-line battalion and were far from happy with the move. Originally given the title of 12 Bn. The Durham Light Infantry, it had its title quickly changed to the 1st Bn. The Tyneside Scottish, [70th Infantry Brigade, 23rd (Northumbrian) Division] and unfortunately became part of the Black Watch... Further changes were due since the battalion had been trawled to transfer skilled workers back to civilian employment vital to the country's war effort. In addition, men who were too old or too young for active service overseas and those unfit for the rigours of warfare were taken out. Their places were taken by conscripted men... On the 19th October, there were more transfers of officers and men to the 12th Battalion. Most of the men transferred were too young for active service overseas... On the 6th January [1940]... a further 33 other ranks classed as 'immatures' - too young for active service abroad - were transferred to the 12th (Tyneside Scottish) Battalion. These were replaced the following day by a draft of 48 other ranks from the ITC Brancepath." The book mentions a continual stream of drafts from the Durham's ITC to fill out the ranks vacated mainly it appears by the immatures. NB. Words in square brackets are mine. Best, Steve.
My Father joined the TA in 1940 he also lied about his age (he was only16) to get in, and be along side his older brother. By all accounts they both enjoyed being boy soldiers. David