Identification of Uniform Badge

Discussion in 'WW2 Militaria' started by Quis Separabit, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    Hi

    I was wondering whether anyone can identify what the badges on my dad's uniform signifies, in particular the "Triangle" emblem?

    He was in 2 Royal Ulster Rifles but attached to 9th Infantry Brigade Headquarters on DDay where he was Camp Commandant/Defence Platoon commander so am wondering whether relates to that is some way?

    On a separate but related note, technically I think he was a Lieutenant and a War Substantive Captain (has the 3 pips on it) but my mum also said that post was he was a "Town Major" looking after a town/district in Germany (somewhere near Bremen but not sure where) and I remember when I used to play as kid with his bag of pips etc he also had some red, crown shaped(?), velvet type buttons? Could a "technical" Lieutenant have worn a Major's insignia?

    Any assistance on either point greatly appreciated, especially the former point as if the insignia relates to 9th Infantry Brigade it may make it easier for me to identify them from photos.

    Cheers.

    Quis Separabit
     

    Attached Files:

  2. tmac

    tmac Senior Member Patron

    Black and red triangular badge is 3rd British Infantry Division
     
  3. bofors

    bofors Senior Member

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  4. tmac

    tmac Senior Member Patron

    3rd British Infantry Division Order of Battle, D-Day

    Sword Beach, Normandy, June 6, 1944. H-Hour: 7.25am

    8th Infantry Brigade (Assault brigade)
    1st Battalion, The Suffolk Regiment
    2nd Battalion, The East Yorkshire Regiment
    1st Battalion, The South Lancashire Regiment

    185th Infantry Brigade (Follow-up brigade)
    2nd Battalion, The Royal Warwickshire Regiment
    1st Battalion, The Royal Norfolk Regiment
    2nd Battalion, The King’s Shropshire Light Infantry

    9th Infantry Brigade (Reserve brigade)
    2nd Battalion, The Lincolnshire Regiment
    1st Battalion, The King’s Own Scottish Borderers
    2nd Battalion, The Royal Ulster Rifles

    Divisional Troops

    7th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery

    33rd Field Regiment, Royal Artillery

    76th (Highland) Field Regiment, Royal Artillery

    20th Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery

    92nd (Loyals) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery

    3rd Reconnaissance Regiment (Northumberland Fusiliers) Royal Armoured Corps

    2nd Battalion, The Middlesex Regiment (Machine Gun)
    17th Field Company, Royal Engineers
    246th Field Company, Royal Engineers
    253rd Field Company, Royal Engineers

    Units under command for assault phase

    27th Armoured Brigade

    13th / 18th Royal Hussars
    1st East Riding Yeomanry
    The Staffordshire Yeomanry

    1st (Special Service) Brigade

    3, 4 and 6 Commandos
    45 Royal Marine Commando
    Two troops 10 (Inter-Allied) Commando (French)
    One troop Royal Marines Engineer Commando
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  5. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    Hi Robert

    I have his service records and various other bits and know he was 2RUR attached to 9th Infantry Brigade as Camp Commandant/Defence Platoon but no mention of the "Town Major" aspect (though I have the letter recommending him for it).

    Was hoping to find out what the dark blue "Triangle" at the bottom was as, if 9th Infantry Brigade, will make it a lot easier to try and ID on photos.

    Thanks.

    Quis
     
  6. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member


    Thanks tmac, I knew the Red and Black Triangle was 3rd British Infantry Division but don't know what the dark blue "Triangle" at the bottom signifies?

    I'm almost hoping it means he was attached 9th Infantry Brigade, will make it a lot easier to try and ID on photos which Michel Sarbarly has kindly directed me to, together with a mine of other information about landing schedules, landing craft and landing location etc on DDay.

    Thanks.

    Quis
     
  7. tmac

    tmac Senior Member Patron

    Screen Shot 2019-06-25 at 10.58.49.png
    Screen Shot 2019-06-25 at 10.59.25.png I can't find anything about the blue triangle, but this might be helpful - from The British Soldier, by Jean Bouchery ...
     
  8. tmac

    tmac Senior Member Patron

    Notice that the strips would be dark green in the case of rifle battalions - the ones in your picture seem to be dark green.
     
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  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I know it might not help but in an illustration in Mike Chappell's British Battle Insignia 39-45 by Osprey it has a 1 KOSB ( 3rd Div )chap from '43 with a red triangle that represented their service with 29th Div in WW1.
    It is the same shape as yours just red not blue.
     
  10. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    Many thanks for this tmac, not the greatest picture of his uniform I know but the strip is dark green with "Royal Ulster Rifles" in black so doesn't show up that well.

    I've seen loads of 2RUR photos from around 1944-45 and never seen the dark blue triangle underneath so can only assume it may be something to do with him being attached to 9th Infantry Brigade Headquarters and/or Camp Commandant and/or BAOR as he was in Germany until March 1946.

    Thanks again.

    Quis
     
  11. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hi,
    It may have been worn to show that he was from the 2nd Battalion.

    From “British Army Uniforms & Insignia of World War Two” by B.L. Davis.

    Regimental  and  Battalion  Arm  Flashes.jpg

    Regards

    Danny
     
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  12. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    Thanks Danny - would make sens but then would have expected to potentially see on other 2RUR uniforms?

    Will take a closer look at other uniforms from 2RUR and Brigade HQ.

    Thanks.

    Quis
     
  13. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    OK - slightly confused now as attached photos show:
    - 9 Brigade HQ Officers April 1945 and the one on front row, 3rd from left appears to be wearing a similar dark Triangle at bottom and possibly the one on Brigadier Kempster's immediate left (though neither from 2RUR as badge over left eye and not sure which regiments badges relate to?)
    - 9 Brigade Defence Platoon and three of the 2RUR men on the back row appear to have a similar Triangle (back row - far left and the two on the far right) - but then the Lance Corporal seated on the floor the far left at the front also does and possibly the one seated far right on the middle row (again - not sure which regiment the badges relate to).

    Starting to suspect designates Brigade Headquarters or similar but would be good to know which regiments the other identified soldiers relate to just so can rule out Battalion designation...

    Thanks.

    Quis
     
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  14. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    The odds of this being the same BD he wore on 6 June are small.

    It more than likely correlates to what he wore at the end of the war, or just postwar - like the majority of BD.

    There are quite a few Bn specific curios that emerge, chat to the relevant Regimental Museum etc, but they don't always have information on some nuanced bits of kit.
     
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  15. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    Thanks Swiper

    Noted re battledress on DDay and post the end of the war and perhaps that is why haven't seen any pre DDay with the blue triangle as yet. 9 Brigade Officers and Defence Platoon photos are believed to be from April 1945 wjhen Brigadier Kempster took over 9 Brigade but could potentially be later than that.

    Quis
     
  16. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hi,
    You could contact Jon (Postwarden) on the British Badge Forum to see if he has any information on this badge. Badges On Battle Dress Book - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

    Is the manufactures label still in the BD ? Might have the year it was made stamped on it.

    The BD might also be stamped with a letter to indicate which year it was manufactured.
    1939 = R
    1940 = Q
    1941 = P
    1942 = O
    1943 = N
    1944 = M
    1945 = L or Z
    1946 = L
    1947 = E

    Regards

    Danny
     
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  17. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    Thanks Danny

    Better photos attached but can't see a stamp with letter on the BD other than something that is illegible on the bottom of the label.....

    Will try the badge forum (who new such a thing existed!).

    Cheers.

    Quis
     

    Attached Files:

  18. tmac

    tmac Senior Member Patron

    It looks like the battledress was made by a private tailor rather than being Army issue, so presumably it wouldn't have an official date stamp. But does the illegible stamp at the bottom of the label say 'Oct 1944'?
     
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  19. Quis Separabit

    Quis Separabit Junior Member

    Hi tmac

    On closer inspection I'm pretty sure it does say "OCT 1944" and I know that during this time he was a W/S Lieutenant but now am a bit more confused as at this time he was in and around the Overloon area in Holland?

    I'll need to check his documents to see whether he took any leave around this time though would be surprised as he took leave the following January to get married..

    I'll do some more digging.

    Thanks.

    Quis


    upload_2019-6-26_9-13-57.png

    upload_2019-6-26_9-28-24.png
     
  20. Urrah

    Urrah Member

    It's a standard issue blouse not one specifically tailored. It has been modified quite heavily when the fighting was done and it was modified by someone who wasn't an actual tailor, from the looks of it. This was very common. The regulations stated that any modifications to uniforms had to be reversible but this was often ignored, particularly in this case.
     

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