Identification of these Dutch wings my dad has...

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by Jennifer Plesman Jackson, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. Here are the wings My Dad had mounted on this plaque. He helped train mechanics at the Royal Nederland Flying School in Jackson MI May 1942 thru Feb 1944. When the school closed down, he flew with the last group to Australia to help the Dutch (and Australians) fight the Japanese from there. I have no idea when he was issued either of these wings. I did find a pair of the bottom wing which Was identified as follows - “WWII Netherlands Aviation Mechanic wing made in the US by AMICO (nickel-plated brass)”. I haven’t found anything so far on the top one, of which there is only 1. Dad had it soldered to this plaque so I cannot see the back of either wing. Any help in identifying this wing would be wonderful! Yes, the top one has part of the propeller broken off but it has been in this state for as long as we can remember.

    I am almost 100% certain these wings are Dutch. But I have none of his military service records. I am in the process of seeing if I can retrieve them from Holland. Thanks all! If I posted this in the wrong place, please let me know...

    Jennifer
     

    Attached Files:

    Dave55 likes this.
  2. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hi,
    The top set of wings look like they are for the KNIL.

    I cannot see the wings you have on the plaque so maybe you father added the propeller to them when he made the plaque.

    There is some information and illustration here KNIL WWII Air Force Wings and Insignia Page

    The other badges are illustrated here as well.

    Regards

    Danny
     
  3. Thank you, Danny, I will go look!!! This is great!
     
  4. The top badge on your plaque looks the same as the one your father is wearing with all 3 propellers present though) on the photo you posted in your Member Information post.

    Michel
     
  5. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hi,
    Did not see the photo Michel mentioned.

    It looks the wings are for a Flight Engineer.

    Maybe made in Australia or the US. Which may account for the slight difference in manufacture.

    There is one here wings

    Regards

    Danny
     
  6. Sorry, the pic is actually in the Gallery, but its thumbnail does not show that it includes the breast pocket wings as well. See the full pic here:
    04F0154F-D5CF-4284-B934-91753E3480D2 | WW2Talk

    Curiously, on this photo the pair of insignia with the 2-blade propeller is not worn as it should on the shoulder straps. Maybe it was already put aside for future mounting on the plaque... ;)

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  7. Apparently the two metal dots on the black triangle worn on the shoulder strap meant "Onder-Luitenant" (Sub-Lieutenant), a rank specific of the KNIL. See:
    uniformen1

    Michel
     
  8. Michel, I never looked closely at the photo of my dad in uniform!!! Thank you so much. It IS the top wings in the photo. And I had not even thought about tracking down the shoulder strap epaulets... I am so excited to go look at this in detail.... Jennifer
     
  9. Great thinking, thank you, Danny. I am so grateful for these links! I need to sit down in the next few days and process all this new info on my dad’s wings and epaulettes. Jennifer
     
  10. TijgerB

    TijgerB Member

    Just curious have you tried to obtain your fathers military papers? What was your fathers name if I may ask?? I got the army list for 1949 naming all officers maybe he is in it. I also got the one for 1940.
     
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  12. Cornelis Plesman
    No middle name or middle initial(s)
    He was called “Kees” though

    Thank you for trying to help! I have the email in Dutch on how to request his military records but I need to call them. Too many big words I don’t understand and it is a long application. Or I may wait for my Dutch cousin who is coming to the US in 6 weeks... He was never in the army (I am pretty sure). Went straight from working for KLM in Curaçao to New York in 1940, then Jackson Mississippi with the Royal Netherlands Military Flying School, then to Australia with KNIL I think. Very confusing because I have no military service papers at all. Just newspaper articles and the like.

    Jennifer
     
    TijgerB likes this.
  13. I have a second pic of my dad, with Mom, during the war. This pic shows an epaulet in the same shape and style as the other pic (my avatar) BUT, only 1 metal dot and not 2. There was none with only 1 dot on the link Michel gave me. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Lower rank? What rank? Thank you!!!
     

    Attached Files:

  14. I think that the single dot means "Cadet Officer", i.e. someone being trained to become an officer but who has not passed the officer grade yet.

    It is also described as "Adjutant Warrant Officer", the KNIL term for it being "Adjutant Onderofficier". See:
    File:Royal Netherlands East Indies Army, Koninklijk Nederlandsch-Indisch Leger Tentara Kerajaan Hindia Belanda Rank Insignia KNIL 1942-1950 Adjudant Warrant officer.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

    I am not quite sure of the exact difference between those two ranks though...:)

    I believe it depends on whether the officer-to-be comes from the ranks (Non Commissioned Officer), in the case of the Adjutant Warrant Officer, or is directly recruited to become a commisioned Officer in the case of the Cadet Officer.

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  15. That makes perfect sense. Thank you, Michel!
     

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