I.D. for markings on British vehicles in Normandy, Royal Engineers

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by EKB, Dec 24, 2021.

  1. EKB

    EKB Well-Known Member

    Hello, I have two questions.

    There is a marking "10-RB" on the tracked mechanical excavators in these pictures. What is the significance?

    In the last picture some British soldiers are walking towards the camera. Want to confirm if they are moving North, South, East or West.

    The first image was made at the La Bréche Hermanville crossroads. The other pictures were recorded at the D6/D33 crossroads, Le Douet de Chouain.

    01 © IWM A70 41-4 Crawler marked 10-RB at La Bréche Hermanville X-Roads.jpg 02 © IWM B5897 and A70 57-7 Crawler 10-RB Le Douet de Chouain X-roads copy.jpg 03 © IWM A70 A70 57-7 and B5897 Running Royal Engineer at Douet X-roads.png 04 © IWM A70 57-7 Engineers at Douet X-roads.jpeg 05 © IWM B 5380 A Co.:6 DLI in Douet 11 Jun 44 CROP 02 copy.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2021
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  2. Listy

    Listy Well-Known Member

    RB = Ruston-Bucyrus. the 10 is some form of grading, such as engine size or tonnage (either Drag or vehicle Weight)

    So it's literally the model number. It's like writing 'M4a1' on a Sherman.

    Edit:
    Further, it appears the ##-RB mark appeared on most RB diggers.
    40RBL78 MA Field Gun - Tank Encyclopedia

    There's a picture of a 19-RB in that article (plus a mental RB SPG).
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2021
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  3. EKB

    EKB Well-Known Member

    Thanks Listy,
    Happy Holidays.
     
  4. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    One of my photos taken from a negative of a digger.
    Keith
    RH digger neg.photo close up jpg (2019_01_08 13_19_49 UTC).jpg
     
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  5. On this photo (IWM B5380), the chaps are just past the Jerusalem crossroads, marching South-East. See the 2nd and 3rd photos in this post:
    22nd Dragoons tanks in Normandy (plus a few Westminster Dragoons ones...)

    The Café Restaurant on the left (or what remains of it) is the one on the left of your stitched stills below the 4/7 DG Sherman DD on you second group of photos.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2021
  6. EKB

    EKB Well-Known Member

    Thanks Keith,

    That looks like archive photo B7851. Your copy of the picture shows more detail than the low-resolution preview at IWM.
    B7852 is a companion photo of the same scene.
     
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  7. EKB

    EKB Well-Known Member

    Thanks Michel for the link, that was helpful. Interesting that you mentioned the restaurant and flail tank No. 88, because I recently posted these images in another forum. Note that the two tanks moving in opposite directions have a star painted on the turret, which was unusual for British Shermans.

    Traffic pattern D6 D33 at Douet X-roads.jpeg
    Panzer Lehr Mk IVs destroyed south of Bayeux - Axis History Forum
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
  8. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    Thanks for the info on the photo, the original neg i have is on glass and came from the factory that made the diggers it was found in a skip with a few others when the factory closed down.
    Here is the full photo with number A5-8096? or 90 at the end

    RH digger neg.photo jpg (2019_01_08 13_19_49 UTC).jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
  9. EKB

    EKB Well-Known Member

    Jersualem (Douet de Chouain) crossroads 01.jpg

    Hello,

    I’m looking for the catalogue number of the photo on the left; I believe it was made at the same time as the other two.

    Jersualem (Douet de Chouain) crossroads 02.jpeg Jersualem (Douet de Chouain) crossroads 03.jpeg
     
  10. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    EKB I was just poking through the different numbers on IWM - no luck finding your "man up a ladder" image, but have you looked at B5897? It looks to have been taken at the same time as -5 and -6.
     
  11. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    The men on the ladder are not in the B Series. It does not appear they are in the Canadian albums either. Its an obvious crop so what does the original look like? Possibly in the HU series but that numbering sequence is so chaotic as to make a search very difficult. It can be productive to track the photographer rather than the B number.

    Screenshot_122_stitch.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2022
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  12. Took me a while but finally found it, using 'Signals AND 1944' as search keywords. It's B6163 by Lt Handford, 28 Jun 44:

    Original wartime caption: A group of houses near Conde sure Seulles which were badly damaged in previous fighting, caused obstruction to the present attack. Royal Engineers of 30 Corps Headquarters Signal Section, were called in to remove the obstruction and soon traffic was able to move freely. At top of pole - L/Corporal R. V. Tovens of Maidstone, Kent. Below - Major Foster of Sevenoaks, Kent. Signalman E. Valentine of Blackburn, Lancs. Traffic at the crossroads, seen in distance, is being directed by L/Corporal E. C. Gooch of 113 Provost Bay, CMP, of Norwich, Norfolk.
    B6163 - 73 Fd Coy RE (30 Corps HQ Sigs Sec), Jerusalem Xrds, 28 Jun 44 [Lt Handford].jpg
    THE OFFENSIVE NEAR TILLY SUR SEULLES

    See also B6162:
    [​IMG] THE OFFENSIVE NEAR TILLY SUR SEULLES. © IWM (B 6162) IWM Non Commercial License

    Therefore, a different photographer (and MP in the background), and slightly different date as on B5895, shot on 25 Jun 44:

    Original wartime caption: Corporal G. Ronsby, CMP, of Bradford, Yorks, has a busy time directing traffic at the Doust [sic: Douet] crossroads. Sherman DD Tanks in background.
    [​IMG] ROAD CLEARING IN NORMANDY. © IWM (B 5895) IWM Non Commercial License
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2022
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  13. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    Handford at work.................

    Screenshot_126.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2022
  14. Both are Sherman V GPO tanks, the first one on your collage (actually the second one chronologically on A70 43-4) definitely from A Tp 86 Fd Regt RA, the second one (going the opposite direction) probably from the same unit, if not the same tank...

    Yes, the star on the turret is quite unusual, even for this unit.

    Michel
     
  15. EKB

    EKB Well-Known Member


    Hi Chris,

    Photo B5897 is in the original post, although cropped. The picture of DD Sherman No. 71 is what triggered this thread because of a large time discrepancy with a video clip of Sherman No. 74. Both images were recorded near Douet.

    While trying to account for the time gap of more than a week, it occurred to me that the typical, two units up with one in reserve standard probably led to the same vehicles passing through the same intersection several times.

    No. 71 is battered and grubby but has a number ‘4’ painted on the side that looks fresh and might be a shop mark from the REME. I also found a film clip of a burnt-out Sherman DD towed through a scrapyard, prominently marked with the letter ‘W’ ... I suppose this meant write-off, wrecked, war loss, etc.

    I got a bit sidetracked by the mechanical diggers, which aroused my curiosity because this type of equipment is almost never discussed in the forums.

    IWM B5897.jpeg
    IWM A70 43-4.jpeg
    IWM A70 57-8 B.jpg
    IWM A70 57-8B.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2022
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  16. EKB

    EKB Well-Known Member

    Michel,

    Thank you for the photo trace.
     
  17. EKB

    EKB Well-Known Member

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  18. EKB

    EKB Well-Known Member

    Royal Engineers 19-RB crane in action under a south London railway bridge, on which a land mine exploded and caused the damage shown in the pictures. Unfortunately the full story was not explained in the captions. IWM pictures H10107-H10119 by Lt. Cash, 27 May 1941 ...

    19-RB crane repair mine-damaged railway bridge South London 27 May 41 A.jpg
    19-RB crane repair mine-damaged railway bridge South London 27 May 41 B.jpg
    19-RB crane repair mine-damaged railway bridge South London 27 May 41 C.jpeg
     
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  20. EKB

    EKB Well-Known Member

    RAF bulldozer, scraper and airfield security detachment ...

    © IWM CL 1510 Bulldozers and mechanical scrapers B58:Melsbroek.jpeg
    © IWM CL 1396 Humber cars Eindhoven.jpg
     

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