How to use a PIAT

All I'm going to say is adrenaline.

 

These were all found by very simple searches, there are many more that involve firing heavier weapons from the hip, Charlton's is remarkable in that I assume the Browning from his vehicle was a .30 or .50 cal. As for the 2 inch mortar being used unconventionally I found at least four other mentions of it in citations, including Cain firing it vertically at arms length. To suggest these occurences were the norm would be wrong but to suggest they never happened to pumped up soldiery either enraged or in fear of their lives is equally wrong. Extremis in extremis.

I'll add that these are not the work of authors, they are official citations verified by witnesses and senior officers in the field.

(And Alex, the Milan was never designed as a bunker buster, (Missile d´infanterie léger antichar = Anti-Tank Light Infantry Missile) it's use in the Falklands was pioneered by men on the ground, the powers that be were horrified that such an expensive solution was found to earth bunkers but unusually and sensibly did not insist the practice stopped.)


Private Ted Kenna:
On his own initiative and without orders Private KENNA stood up immediately in full view of the enemy less than fifty yards away and engaged the bunker, firing his Bren gun from his hip. The enemy machine gun immediately returned Private KENNA's fire with such accuracy that bullets actually passed between his arms and body. Undeterred, he remained completely exposed and continued to fire at the enemy until his magazine was exhausted. Still making a target of himself, Private KENNA discarded his Bren gun and called for a rifle. Despite the intense machine gun fire, he seized the rifle and, with amazing coolness, killed the gunner with his first round. A second automatic opened fire on Private KENNA from a different position and another of the enemy immediately tried to move into position behind the first machine gun, but Private KENNA remained standing and killed him with his next round.<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P> </O:P><O:P></O:P>
The result of Private KENNA's magnificent bravery in the face of concentrated fire, was that the bunker was captured without further loss, and the company attack proceeded to a successful conclusion, many enemy being killed and numerous automatic weapons captured.<O:P> </O:P>
<O:P></O:P>
<O:P>
GUARDSMAN EDWARD COLQUHOUN CHARLTON, VC
IRISH GUARDS

<TABLE width="75%"><TBODY><TR><TD>On the morning of 21st April 1945, Guardsman Charlton was co-driver in one tank of a troop, which, with a platoon of infantry seized the village of Wistedt. Shortly afterwards, the enemey attacked this position under cover of an artillery concentration and in great strength, comprising as it later transpired a battalion of the 15th Panzer Grenadiers supported by six self-propelled guns. All the tanks, including Guardsman Charlton's, were hit, the infantry were hard pressed and in danger of being over-run. Thereupon, entirely on his own initiative, Guardsman Charlton decided to counter-attack the enemy. Quickly recovering the Browning from his damaged tank, he advanced up the road and in full view of the enemy, fired the Browning from his hip. Such was the boldness of his attack and the intensity of his fire that he halted the leading enemy company, inflicting heavy casualties on them. This effort at the same time brought much needed relief to our own infantry. For ten minutes Guardsman Charlton fired in this manner until wounded in the left arm. Immediately, despite intense enemy fire, he mounted his machine-gun on a nearby fence which he used to support his wounded left arm. He stood firing thus for a further ten minutes until he was again hit in the left arm, which fell away shattered and useless. Although twice wounded and suffering from loss of blood, Guardsman Charlton again lifted his machine-gun on to the fence, now having only one arm with which to fire and reload. Nevertheless, he still continued to inflict casualties on the enemy until finally he was hit for the third time and collapsed. He died later in enemy hands. The heroism and determination of this Guardsman in his self-imposed task were beyond all praise. Even his German captors were amazed at his valour. Guardsman Charlton's courageous and self-sacrificing action not only inflicted extemely heavy casualties on the enemy and retrieved his comrades from a desperate situation, he also enabled the position to be speedily recaptured.




</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Lieutenant George Arthur Knowland,:
The Royal Norfolk Regiment, attached No 1 Commando.
Born 16 Aug 1922 in Catford, Kent, he was educated at Elmwood Road School where he won, in 1939, a scholarship to the Technical School. From there he went to the School of Fellowship of St Christopher, joined the R Norfolk Regt as a Pte in 1941 and was Commissioned later that year.
In Burma on 31st January, 1945, near Kangaw, Lieutenant Knowland was commanding the forward platoon of a Troop positioned on the extreme North of a hill which was subjected to very heavy and repeated enemy attacks throughout the whole day. Before the first attack started, Lieutenant Knowland's platoon was heavily mortared and machine gunned, yet he moved about among his men keeping them alert and encouraging them, though under fire himself at the time. When the enemy, some 300 strong in all, made their first assault they concentrated all their effects on his platoon of 24 men but in spite of the ferocity of the attack, he moved about from trench to trench distributing ammunition, and firing his rifle and throwing grenades at the enemy, often from completely exposed positions. Later, when the crew of one of his forward Bren guns had all been wounded, he sent back to troop Headquarters for another crew and ran forward to man the gun himself until they arrived. The enemy was then less than 10 yards from him in dead ground down the hill so in order to get a better field of fire, he stood on top of the trench, firing the light machine gun from his hip and successfully keeping them at a distance until a Medical Orderly had dressed and evacuated the wounded men behind him. the new Bren Gun team also became casualties on the way up and Lieutenant Knowland continued to fire the gun until another team took over. Later, when a fresh attack came in he took over a 2 inch Mortar and in spire of heavy fire and the closeness of the enemy, he stood up in the open to face them, firing the mortar from his hip and killing six of them with his first bomb. When all bombs were expended he went back through heavy grenade, mortar and machine gun fire to get more, which he fired in the same way from the open in front of his platoon positions. When those bombs were finished he went back to his own trench and still standing up fired his rifle at them. Being hard pressed and with the enemy closing in on him from only 10 yards away, he had no time to re-charge his magazine. Snatching up the Tommy gun of a casualty, he sprayed the enemy and was mortally wounded stemming this assault, though not before he had killed and wounded many of the enemy. Such was the inspiration of his magnificent heroism, that, though fourteen out of twenty-four of his platoon became casualties at an early stage, and six of his positions were over-run by the enemy, his men held on through twelve hours of continuous and fierce fighting until reinforcements arrived. If this Northern end of the hill had fallen the rest of the hill would have been endangered, the beach-head dominated by the enemy and other units farther inland cut off from their source of supplies. As it was, the final successful counter-attack was later launched from the vital ground which Lieutenant Knowland had taken such a gallant part in holding.
This Officer's action is remarkable in that a mortar fired from the hip produces significant recoil.

</O:P><O:P>Citation No. 2722925
Lance Corporal John Patrick Kenneally
1st Battalion Irish Guards:

"The Bou feature dominates all ground east and west between Medjez and Tebourba. It was essential to the final assault on Tunis that this feature should be captured and held. A Guards Brigade assaulted and captured a portion of the Bou on April 27, 1943. The Irish Guards held onto points 212 and 214 on the western end of the feature, which points the Germans frequently counter-attacked. While a further attack to capture the complete feature was being prepared, it was essential for the Irish Guards to hold on. They did so. On April 28 1943, the positions held by one company of the Irish Guards in the ridge between points 212 and 214 were about to be subjected to an attack by the enemy. Approximately one company of the enemy were seen forming up preparatory to attack and L/Cpl Kenneally decided that this was the right moment to attack them himself. Single-handed he charged down the bare forward slope straight at the main enemy body, firing his Bren gun from the hip as he did so. This outstanding act of gallantry and the dash with which it was executed completely unbalanced the enemy company, which broke up in disorder. L/Cpl Kenneally then returned to the crest further to harass their retreat. L/Cpl Kenneally repeated this remarkable exploit on the morning of 30 April 1943, when, accompanied by a Sergeant of the Reconnaissance Corps, he again charged the enemy forming up for an assault. This time he so harassed the enemy, inflicting many casualties that this projected attack was frustrated. The enemy's strength was again about one company. It was only when he was noticed hopping from one fire position to another further to the left, in order to support another company, carrying his gun in one hand and supporting himself on a Guardsman with the other, that it was discovered that he had been wounded. He refused to give up his Bren gun, claiming that he was the only one who understood that gun, and continued to fight all through the day with great courage, devotion to duty and disregard for his own safety. The Magnificent gallantry of this Non-Commissioned Officer on these two occasions under heavy fire, his unfailing vigilance, and remarkable accuracy were responsible for saving many valuable lives during days and nights in the forward positions. His actions also played a considerable part in holding these positions and this influenced the whole course of the battle. His rapid appreciation of the situation, his initiative and his extraordinary gallantry in attacking single-handed a massed body of the enemy and breaking up an attack on two occasions, was an achievement that can seldom have been equalled. His courage in fighting all day when wounded was an inspiration to all ranks."


</O:P>

 

Aaaaah, friendliness returns... :GroupHug:
Alex, when and if you join up I hope we'll get to see a picture of you firing a 51mm mortar from the hip ...

 

Art, ex-Infantry (ASH of Canada) just sent me this email,
I tried to respond to the article about piat guns, on the forum, but
couldn't figure out how to send a response, so I will tel you of my
limited experience with the weapon;
I never actually fired one in anger but did so on a range, and it wasn't
easy
It was heavy and cumbersome, and required two men to operate it
effectively.Number 2 on the piat had to carry the bombs which themselves
were heavy.
The forum recorded a man using one by firing and reloading from the
hip-frankly, I don't believe that could happen. Other correspondents have
explained the difficult process of cocking the thing, which I agree with.
The piat was the first thing that would be dumped at he first
opportunity-it was very difficult trying to run while carrying one, and
generally was not a popular infantry weapon. If one had plenty of time to
prepare one to fire and the enemy obligingly came within range for a shot,
it was effective-I doubt that they would be able to get more that one shot
away.
The enemy had the panzerfaust which was much more practical, and the us
forces used a bazooka which was somewhat less cumbersome than our piat. We
preferred to leave the tank busting to the anti tank gunners.
But that is another story.



I hope Art, you learn how to post here as we need an Infantrymans input here.

 

I think we'll sum up this debate like this.

The two veterans find it hard to believe that the PIAT could be fired from the hip. They've handled the thing. It was not a normal firing postion.

There is strong support from eye-witness accounts that in a handful of extreme do or die situations humans can perform actions that are not normal, ie: Fire it from the hip.

Agreed?

 

EDIT (cross posted with above 3 posts while looking into Jefferson)

Rather petulant mate, I thought you were up for an 'adult' chat?
The 'nya nya' crowing tone was hardly adult was it? :mellow:
The 'countless' mentions hold very few that seem to have much historiographical substance, one or two are better supported.



Jefferson's Citation from Fusilier Jefferson. Hall of Fame. Fusiliers' Museum, Lancashire. can't find much else on the specific details of the action yet, a reenactor magazine can hardly be called a reliable source. It does seem that he was standing at the time though... mentalism. Part of the fascination with VC citations for me is the complete inability to truly imagine the circumstances and adrenal rush that lead men to perform such 'impossible' deeds...
Always seems so fitting that the Unknown soldier has a VC too, how many hundreds earnt it but in circumstances with no witnesses or survivors to recommend them... :



"On 16th May 1944, during the attack on the Gustav Line, an anti-tank obstacle held up some of our tanks, leaving the leading company of Fusilier Jefferson’s battalion to dig in on the hill without tanks or anti-tank guns. The enemy counter-attacked with infantry and two Mark IV tanks which opened fire at short range causing a number of casualties and eliminating one PIAT* group entirely.
As the tank advanced towards the partially-dug trenches, Fusilier Jefferson, entirely on his own initiative, seized a PIAT, and running forward alone under fire, took up a position behind a hedge; as he could not see properly, he came into the open, and standing up under the hail of bullets, fired at the leading tank, which was now only twenty yards away. It burst into flames and all the crew were killed. Fusilier Jefferson then reloaded the PIAT and proceeded towards the second tank, which withdrew before he could get within range. By this time our own tanks had arrived and the enemy counter-attack was smashed with heavy casualties. Fusilier Jefferson’s gallant act not merely saved the lives of his company and caused many casualties to the Germans, but also broke up the enemy counter-attack and had a decisive effect on the subsequent operation. His supreme gallantry and disregard of personal risk contributed very largely to the success of the action."
London Gazette 13th July 1944.

Picture from the above excellent regimental site.

On the original video that started this peculiar thread, I still think the bloke is firing a half-cocked weapon from an entirely illogical position. Shame it's about all there is on PIATs on Youtube.

Cheers,
Adam.

 

From my limited military experience,
PIAT and 84mm Carl Gustav, similar weight, the 84 caused my legs to lock up when carrying the damn thing around the hills at Sennybridge.
I can't imagine that being fired from the hip, go on tell me it has.

L7A1 GPMG similar weight to Bren and less accurate, I've fired that from the hip but I wasn't running.

 

If you fired a Carl Gustav from the hip wouldn't you end up with a bloody great burnt hole in your hip?

 

If you fired a Carl Gustav from the hip wouldn't you end up with a bloody great burnt hole in your hip?
Yup!
They were for the rifle sections, I was an SF gunner ya know.(I only shot the 66.)
Like these Canadians.
YouTube - C6 Mp Valcartier

YouTube - C6 Range GPMG 7.62x51=
Happy memories.