How to Kill a Tiger

A simple solution!

In fact, the most successful tank killer of the Second World War was German engineering. The greatest wastage figures were not attributed to close air support or antitank fire, but
crew destruction and abandonment of mechanically disabled tanks. Between 6th June and
7th August 1944, (a relatively sane period with time for regular maintenance) 27% of German
tank casualties were due to mechanical failure; by 31 August (a period during which manoeuvre and redeployment was required due to relentless Allied pressure) the figure rose to an astounding 82% (34% abandoned; 48% destroyed by crew)! American surveys
for German tank losses between 1944 to 1945 from “non enemy action” put the total figure at 43.8%.
In comparison, British and Canadian armoured formations (4th Canadian Armoured
Division, 1st Polish Armoured Division, 7th British Armoured Division, 11th British Armoured Division, The Guards Armoured Division, and 8th British Armoured Brigade) during the
Normandy pursuit (average: 9.3 days; 317 miles) reported 22% tank casualties due to “mechanical failures”.
At a time when the T-34 was being run hundreds of kilometres per week and maintained by illiterate youths and kulaks, the Tiger and Panther required a coterie of Porsche-trained
mechanics. The best way to kill a Tiger was to make it move!

Lieutenant-Colonel (ret’d) Roman Johann Jarymowycz, OMM, CD, Ph.D.

 

. The best way to kill a Tiger was to make it move!


brilliant

 

Forced labour from KZ and Labour camps filled many factories producing weapons and many acts of sabotage were carried out at the risk of certain death if found out.

Producing parts that were able to function for a short time.

You only need one small part to fail in a large motor and a replacement motor is required.

Also not being able to always use the metals of choice sometimes dictated more servicing.

Whilst being repaired the tank is of no real use.

Just some thoughts.

Regards
Tom

 

At a time when the T-34 was being run hundreds of kilometres per week and maintained by illiterate youths and kulaks, the Tiger and Panther required a coterie of Porsche-trained mechanics.

I'd have felt better if you had said "untrained schoolboys and kolkhozniks" as one of the achievements (or intentions at any rate) of the URSS had been erradication of illiteracy, while the elimination of the kulak class (along with many people else) was one of the (intended) consequences of land collectivization.

 

[several snips]

(One suspects the regime's inbuilt hubris/confidence had something to do with this failure to focus fully on infrastructure), but by August 1944 they were very much on the defensive while the Allies were rolling on with rather more solid supply/repair infrastructures.

Forced labour from KZ and Labour camps filled many factories producing weapons and many acts of sabotage were carried out at the risk of certain death if found out.

Producing parts that were able to function for a short time.

Also not being able to always use the metals of choice sometimes dictated more servicing.

Or: do not bring a logistical knife to a strategical gunfight.

 

The problem wasn't the engineering as such it was the fact that each one took nearly 1000,000 man hours to build, so any repairs that would have to be made would take such precision and not really feasable on the battle field. I agree with von poop when he says that a lot would have been abandoned due to minor problems and the onslaught of the allies. A classic example of this is the thousands of artillery, guns, tanks, vehicles and equipment that were left at Dunkirk between may - june 1940

 

Another big problem with the tigers was the drivetrain wasnt built for such a heavy vehicle so that also caused a lot of issues. But in the right hands the tiger was arguably the most destructive tank during the war.

 

Canuck / Azza-
Gosh - I wish I had known that the Tiger was so badly made that they couldn't run far - wouldn't have had to hide when they came along - always thought it was the really, really long 88mm that did the most damage - not the drive train !

Cheers

 

I was merely saying that a flaw they had was the drivetrain. With all due respect sir I hadnt mentioned anything about the 88mm

 

I was merely saying that a flaw they had was the drivetrain. With all due respect sir I hadnt mentioned anything about the 88mm

There would certainly be many more servicemen alive today had the 88mm been as fragile as the Tiger drivetrain.

 

I'd have felt better if you had said "untrained schoolboys and kolkhozniks" as one of the achievements (or intentions at any rate) of the URSS had been erradication of illiteracy, while the elimination of the kulak class (along with many people else) was one of the (intended) consequences of land collectivization.

View attachment 29314

Sorry Miguel. No intent to offend. I was obliged to re-print the passage as written. However, the Mongol troops who used toilets in Berlin for drinking water, presumably never having seen indoor plumbing before, may have been the demographic he was referring to.
Can we agree that they were unlikely to have held a mechanics certificate?

 

There would certainly be many more servicemen alive today had the 88mm been as fragile as the Tiger drivetrain.


I would think so too. Imagine if all 1500 had been built that were ordered of the tiger2"s instead of 492

 

How to kill a Tiger?

Do what the Russians did...

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/weapons-technology-equipment/24869-valentine.html#post289875

.....the Soviets went Tiger-hunting in Valentines!!!

They regarded the Valentine as one of the quietest tanks in their inventory - AND liked its very low profile :wink: Nikolai Zheleznov records one such encounter that took place on either the 23rd or 24th of MArch 1944 near Kamletts-Podolsk -



Quote:
"The brigade commander, Colonel Formichev, sent two of the low-proile Valentine tanks from our 7th motorcycle battalion, and they, using the bushes as cover, approached the Tigers to within 300-400 metres. By firing at their sides they destroyed two tanks, and then a third. A fourth Tiger was on the slope of the hill and didn't see what was happening to his left. Then it crawled away somewhere."

 

VP -
Prior to call up I was working in Nuffields in Birmingham - constant night shift - making Crusaders - some of the drillers on the suspension holes in the main body sometimes made little errors - and so the errant holes were filled with a plug of Aluminium - which did nothing for my confidence when I first realised that - just maybe - I shall be fighting in one these units with aluminium plugs - so I was always leery of that Mark in training at Barnard Castle.

Happily I did all my fighting in Churchills which was the best Tank we had in North Africa and Italy - an 88mm still knocked me out though with one in the engine and the other into the turret where I had been standing a nano second before - God knows how many more into it before they had enough practice - they didn't seem to like us at that time !

So the Crusader had my fears - which was proven in the Desert as being not up to the mark......

Cheers

 

Canuck -
It wasn't only the Mongol troops in Berlin who used toilets as drinking fountains - they also took over the beautiful Schoenbrunn Palace in Vienna - when the British took over as their HQ - a full battalion of Pioneers - 750 men - took three full weeks to clean it up - the Russians were sending BROKEN toilets - sinks etc back to Russia at that time also - trainloads every day !

Cheers

 

In fact, the most successful tank killer of the Second World War was German engineering. The greatest wastage figures were not attributed to close air support or antitank fire, but

crew destruction and abandonment of mechanically disabled tanks. Between 6th June and

7th August 1944, (a relatively sane period with time for regular maintenance) 27% of German

tank casualties were due to mechanical failure; by 31 August (a period during which manoeuvre and redeployment was required due to relentless Allied pressure) the figure rose to an astounding 82% (34% abandoned; 48% destroyed by crew)! American surveys
for German tank losses between 1944 to 1945 from “non enemy action” put the total figure at 43.8%.




In comparison, British and Canadian armoured formations (4th Canadian Armoured

Division, 1st Polish Armoured Division, 7th British Armoured Division, 11th British Armoured Division, The Guards Armoured Division, and 8th British Armoured Brigade) during the

Normandy pursuit (average: 9.3 days; 317 miles) reported 22% tank casualties due to “mechanical failures”.


At a time when the T-34 was being run hundreds of kilometres per week and maintained by illiterate youths and kulaks, the Tiger and Panther required a coterie of Porsche-trained
mechanics. The best way to kill a Tiger was to make it move!




Lieutenant-Colonel (ret’d) Roman Johann Jarymowycz, OMM, CD, Ph.D.


Jarymowycz is best described as 'not a fan' of Allied tanks and tactics in Normandy.
In the Normandy pursuit phase mentioned above the actual losses were 383 Allied tanks of which 305 (80% of losses)were mechanical failures.
Obviously if you compare the losses to actual tank totals then it reduces considerably.
For the Italian Front it was found (from a sample of 1200 losses) that mechanical falures came out at 35%.
The mistake being made is to work out the German losses to non-enemy action for a period when they were in headlong retreart and then apply these skewed figures to ALL actions. When you compare Allied to Axis losses they come pretty close in that around 50% of tanks were lost to AP shot.

 

VP-
I have been waiting for Gerry's book since our meeting in London with Ron in January 2009 as he keeps claiming problems with his publisher...missed him by one day in London last month....

we only made the hulls at Nuffields - ten per week - one of the reasons I have grave doubts about Unions is that the turret ring driller was a union man and would only drill three rings per shift - then after dinner at midnight- the lazy bar-steward got his head down and woke at 7a.m. in time to go home.....some war effort !

Cheers