Hi, My first post since I stumbled upon this treasure trove of information and helpful contributors. I am a wargamer and want to recreate the main battlefields on table top. When I look at similar boards folk have created there seems to be a tendancy to model semi-arid high summer landscapes. However, considering that Salerno, Ortona, Anzio and Cassino took place in Autum/Winter/Spring I wondered how accurate this was. I am aware obviously of the mud issues in the valley bottoms and low laying areas but generally, where not churned up bu tracks and shells, how green were the slopes and hills during the period of the fighting, and how much covered byrock/scree? Mnay thanks for any help. Nick
After spending four winters in wartime Italy I feel qualified to answer this question. Green everywhere except in the areas subjected to troop movements and shellfire. Mud everywhere and all churned up by tyres & tracks. Foliage in affected areas usually blackened by shellfire. Imagine Dantes Inferno and you won't go far wrong Ron
Have a search through the IWM photos, I've done a search for 'italy colour' Lots of colour photos in there. Collections Search for "italy colour" | Imperial War Museums=
Hi ya and welcome Try an Google image search such as "Salerno in the Autumn". What scale do you war game in ww2 in?
Hi Nick There is a current thread that is bound to have some color shots of Italy. Even if it doesn't, I'm sure you will like it, http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/general/43218-enhanced-ww2-photos.html#post481489 Dave
Hi Wowtank - my figures are mostly in 15mm and some 6mm for WW2 although I do play in 28mm occasionally. Main interest land/combined arms.
For central and southern Italy in late spring/summer the dominant colour is more likely to be yellow than green, 30+ degrees centigrade and limited rain will do that. You will get lots of mud anywhere close to water and you are likely to hit at least a stream or a ditch (if not a fully fledged river) every couple of miles or so.There is topsoil and some vegetation almost everywhere below the 1000m mark, so rock is rare, but a lot of terrain will be scrub giving very little cover though there probably were more trees in WW2 than there are now. In autumn/winter you will actually get more green as the grass and shrubs will not be burnt out and a lot of the trees are evergreens but there is more than enough rain that any vehicle traffic will destroy the grass and turn a field into mud very quickly (a jeep is enough no need for a tank).
Hi Wowtank - my figures are mostly in 15mm and some 6mm for WW2 although I do play in 28mm occasionally. Main interest land/combined arms. I use 1:72 for ww2 and 28mm for all other apart from navel stuff. I think I had some 15mm ww2 stuff years ago for a game called Gear Krieg. I hope you will post up some photos when you are done
Not wishing to sound like an idiot, Nick, but perhaps you could do a few Google searches. Looking up "Anzio" images for instance, I came up with this website with a surprising amount of landscaping, so to speak. It just takes a little patience And welcome to the forum, from a 6mm guy
Za Rodinu - thanks for posting the images. I have a large collection of black and white pictures and arial photos from Italy. The clue is in the post heading though - what I am trying to establish is, for the battlefields noted, how verdant (or"green") was the landscpe at the time of the battle. Most contemporary colour photos are usually from the summer period and show a sun burnt landscape. What I an trying to confirm is what colour the landscapes would have been in autumn, winter and spring when most of the fighting I am interested in took place.
Read again post #8, written by a local He sums things up pretty well. From late Spring till Autumn grasses dessicate and becomes mostly straw coloured, bushes and trees stay mostly green. With the return of the wet season grasses green up again, naturally. Vegetation along water courses will stay green. Remember to take local variation into account. The photos above if taken in the periods you mention in your first post would be rather verdant in Spring, but in winter cultivated fields would be brown due to wet ploughed land. Fallow fields would be green. Where do you live, so we can think of comparison terms?
Some of pics in my link in post #3. Rather green at times...lots of rain in the winter. THE CAMPAIGN IN ITALY: THE ADVANCE ON CASSINO, MAY 1944 BRITISH EIGHTH ARMY TROOPS CROSSING THE RIVER PO, BEYOND FERRARA, ITALY, 28 APRIL 1945 THE CROSSING OF THE GARIGLIANO RIVER BY THE FIFTH ARMY, LAURO, ITALY, 19 JANUARY 1944 WRECKED GERMAN TRANSPORT MARKS THE RETREAT FROM ROME, 18 JUNE 1944 SUPERMARINE SPITFIRES OF THE ROYAL AIR FORCE IN ITALY, JANUARY 1944 CROSSING OF THE GARIGLIANO RIVER BY THE FIFTH ARMY, ITALY, 19 JANUARY 1944 A crew of a Bofors gun in the Garigliano area doing some sewing. Transport on the Via Appia can be seen in the background. The crew are: Sergeant T R Young, of Barrhead, nearr Glasgow; Bombadier N McLean of Staffen, Isle of Skye; Lance Bombadier R Ruddernam of Walsham-le-Willows, Suffolk; Gunner W Elliot of Mile End, Glasgow; Gunner J Prendergast of Bootle, Liverpool. The Padre is Captain Ritchie of Dunfermline.
