How Canadian conscription benifited Canada's relationship with Britain?

Discussion in 'Canadian' started by sepiaphotos, Dec 1, 2010.

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  1. sepiaphotos

    sepiaphotos Junior Member

    Recently I've been focusing on conscription and my opinion on it, so I attempted to look up benifits of conscription on google. One theory I had was that conscription benifited Canada's relationship with Britain. France was defeated, Germany occupied Czechoslovia, Poland, Austria/Hungary, so really Britain had only Australia and Canada to rely on (and any small British colonies) because at the time America wasn't involved. Do you think if King had implemented conscription right away it would have really benifited the Canadian/British relationship? Would it have significantly helped to push Germany back?
     
  2. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

    You missed out India, South Africa and Rhodesia (the latter having the higest proportion of it's white population serving in WWII), however what the British lacked was a decent industrial complex outside of Britain, thus we had to rely on the USA which profited greatly, often using Empire raw materials
     
  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Sepia -
    King wasn't in any position to declare conscription as he had Quebec to deal with and they were against the war - only after reports finally came in of great shortages was conscription introduced - with conditions - and this was in 1944......Most of the war production was from Quebec - Carriers -Rifles -Radios etc...
    Cheers
     
  4. 17thDYRCH

    17thDYRCH Senior Member

    Anna,

    King introduced the National Resources Mobilization Act in June 1940. It provided sweeping powers to control industry and manpower. The NRMA also provided for limited conscription - for home defence only. The Conservatives threatened to make an issue out of overseas conscription which forced King to hold a national plebisicite which he eventually won, but as Mr Canning points out, Quebecers voted against it by a 3-1 margin.
    Cheers
     
  5. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Weren't the Canadian Universal Carriers built by Ford at Windsor, Ontario ? GM were in Ontario too.
     
  6. 17thDYRCH

    17thDYRCH Senior Member

    Rich
    Ford Canada produced 5000 universal carriers at its plant in Windsor. GM produced 69,227 4x4 15-cwt Trucks.
    A lot of the radio equipment was made by Northern Electric, Canadian Marconi and RCA Victor..all based in Quebec.
     
  7. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Rich -
    I should have said the BULK of munitions were manufactured in Quebec- Chrysler is also in Ontario -trains and planes are still made in Quebec - and invariably on subsidy donations from the rest of the tax payers....
    Cheers
     
  8. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I guessed that the Carriers slipped into the Quebec list in error Tom.

    17th - According to Vanderveen, Ford Canada produced 33,988 carriers and Chevrolet (GM) produced much more than just 15cwts, including armoured Foxes and Otters.

    Total Canadian MT production 1939 - 45 is quoted as 815,729 plus 50,633 AFVs.
     
  9. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Rich - you are probably right in thinking that the carriers slipped into the Quebec file in my list in error - I was too busy both in Africa and Italy to study the statistics of their production - but I do know from my conversations with members of the Canadian 1st Division whom we were supporting that the main reason they had NO reinforcements to replace their massive losses at Ortona - Liri Valley and Gothic Line was the Quebec attitude to making money/munitions while others fought - even when conscription was passed in 1944 - they still stayed in Canada - very few of them went overseas.....The Canadian forces at that time were all volunteers

    One statistic which sticks in my mind is that - at that time- Quebec held more than 20% of the total population - so it could be looked on as reasonable that they had 20% of the armed forces...? Not being a statistician - I would doubt that they came anywhere near 7%- in the nine battalions of 1st Div - there was only the Vandoos - Quebec 22e Regiment...seems to be closer to their contribution....
    Cheers

    Cheers
     
  10. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    The three great themes of Canadian history:
    • Keeping the Americans out
    • Keeping the French in, and
    • Trying to get the Indians to somehow disappear.
     
  11. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Ah, the Vandoos. Not very popular in the folk memory of the part of Surrey that I came from. They apparently tore up the floorboards of every house they were billeted in and usually ended up burning the whole place down.
     
  12. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Rich - they must still do that as Quebec has the most house fires in all Canada
    so - no surprise there !
    Cheers
     
  13. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    Ah, the Vandoos. Not very popular in the folk memory of the part of Surrey that I came from. They apparently tore up the floorboards of every house they were billeted in and usually ended up burning the whole place down.

    Rich
    They we'nt Cdn Arty were they?
    From my new book project;
    Rob

    As of 1st June 1944.
    1) HQ 2 Cdn AGRA - “The Moyle House “, CATERHAM
    Signals Section
    18 Cdn Met Section
    2) 3rd Cdn Med Regt – “Holly Lodge”, COULSDON
    Signals Section
    90 LAD
    3) 4th Cdn Med Regt – “Little Selkirk”, CATERHAM
    Signals Section
    91 LAD
    4) 7th Cdn Med Regt – “Briers Cross”, LIMPSFIELD
    Signals Section
    28 LAD
    5) 15th Med Regt RA – Newlands Corner, GUILDFORD
    Signals Section
    LAD
    6) 1st Heavy Regt RA – Marden Park, WOLDINGHAM
    Signals Section
    LAD
    7) ‘C’ Flight 661Sqn RAF – Hamsey Green, WARLINGHAM
    8) 82 Arty Coy RCASC – GREAT BOOKHAM COMMON
    9) HQ 2Cdn Field Svy Coy – SOUTHEY HALL, nr. BOOKHAM
     
  14. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Rob - the Vandoos -22eRegiment of Quebec - were Infantry part of the permanent force and thus were the leading regiment in 3nd bde of 1st Cdn Division-representing the Eastern part of Canada - Royal Canadian Regiment - Infantry also permanent force leading regt in 1st bde representing Central Canada- PPCLI - Princess Pats - Infantry also perm force rep of Western Canada and leading 2nd bde.
    Cheers
     
  15. 17thDYRCH

    17thDYRCH Senior Member

    The three great themes of Canadian history:
    • Keeping the Americans out
    • Keeping the French in, and
    • Trying to get the Indians to somehow disappear.


    Mr. Tim
    Sacre bleu. Nous sommes continue avec dargent pour la population Native.
    $16billion per annee!

    Louis Riel et fils
     
  16. 17thDYRCH

    17thDYRCH Senior Member

    I guessed that the Carriers slipped into the Quebec list in error Tom.

    17th - According to Vanderveen, Ford Canada produced 33,988 carriers and Chevrolet (GM) produced much more than just 15cwts, including armoured Foxes and Otters.

    Total Canadian MT production 1939 - 45 is quoted as 815,729 plus 50,633 AFVs.

    Rich,
    Vehicle production in Canada was without parallel. I don't have the actual numbers available right now...hopefully by tomorrow...but the war machine that nobody gives credit to, is Canada. Canada was the economic miracle of ww2.
    Imagine that a country of just 11 million souls had, at the end of the war, the fourth largest navy of some 471 ships and the 4th largest airforce along with an army of close to 500,000 men and women. One tenth of the population was in uniform.
    Amazing.

    And, I will shout to the rooftops...proud to be a son of a ww2 Veteran.
     
  17. 17thDYRCH

    17thDYRCH Senior Member

    Ah, the Vandoos. Not very popular in the folk memory of the part of Surrey that I came from. They apparently tore up the floorboards of every house they were billeted in and usually ended up burning the whole place down.

    Rich,

    They were just looking for Germans. It was a Canadian thing to do back in the day when they were training for years on end with no sign of imminent action having been designated as the home defense for the UK.
    Average age of a Canadian soldier during ww2...23.

    Cheers from just a few klicks to the right of Tom Canning
     
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Rich,

    They were just looking for Germans. It was a Canadian thing to do back in the day when they were training for years on end with no sign of imminent action having been designated as the home defense for the UK.
    Average age of a Canadian soldier during ww2...23.

    Cheers from just a few klicks to the right of Tom Canning

    I think it was just that lot. I've never heard it about the troops who arrived in 1940 and then moved down to Aldershot and the Canadian pilots at Kenley were ever so popular.

    I've heard the 'Vandoos' described locally as a 'bunch of illiterate lumberjacks' - I suppose you'd want them on your side in a fight but they didn't make good neighbours.
     
  19. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    I cut down trees, I wear high heels
    Suspenders and a bra
    I wish I'd been a girlie
    Just like my dear papar..........

    monty.jpg

    I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK
    I sleep all night and I work all day
     
  20. Kiwiguy

    Kiwiguy Member

    It's probably very hard to grasp these days with global free trade, but the British Empire was very much an exclusive trading block within which all the British Colonies and Dominions depended heavily on Britain for their manufactured goods. Everything from knives n forks, sewing machines, cars, trucks, locomotives and ships. The colonies in turn fed Britain with raw material for it's industry.

    Another point hard to grasp today is that in those colonised countries, even the non expatriate community and indigenous people felt very proud to be part of the Empire and had a feeling that wherever Britain went that they would follow.

    These sentiments no longer exist, but all across the globe quite distantly separated people felt very united by being British. I don't thin during WW2 many canadians except of course french Canadians perhaps would have even thought to question what was in it for Canada.
     

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