"Honey tank" - Turret-less or otherwise.

I may be wrong but it does look like an M3A1 in the late production phase due to the lack of rivets on the photos. So it is a welded construction.
This would make the date from January 1942 for the pilot versions to summer of 1942 when serious production started on the model.

Regards
Tom

 

Very very nice Mike.
Do you know exactly what variant it is? Diesel or Petrol? Any numbers or paperwork that indicate history pre-Brazil?

~A
Did the Brazilians receive second hand stock or did they purchase fresh stock? Brazilians fought in the Italian campaign, if memory serves me well, is that where these would be from or were they used post war?

 

Gotthard,

Mostly post was as Army surplus was sold off to other countries which had little or no armour in their arsenal.

A lot went to South American countries and several were bought by Israel.

Regards
Tom

 

it is a late m3a1 with 7 cyl contiental radial petrol engine(sounds lovely!!)and a turret basket.there were some early and late in the batch and even some diesels which are rare.i think i read they were supplied new to brazil in 43 but it looks like if thats so they were all the odds+sods left at the factory .alternatively did any old stuff go back to the states as ballast afterall we didnt export much at that time i'll bet!

 

Mike D
it is a late m3a1 with 7 cyl contiental radial petrol engine(sounds lovely!!)and a turret basket.there were some early and late in the batch and even some diesels which are rare.i think i read they were supplied new to brazil in 43 but it looks like if thats so they were all the odds+sods left at the factory .alternatively did any old stuff go back to the states as ballast afterall we didnt export much at that time i'll bet!



As it has a basket it is a M3A1 unlike the one gifted to Bovington in 1988 by the brazilian Govt. which is an M3hybrid M3 hull with a M3A1 turret -no basket weird gun controls. The hybrids were basically factory yard sweepings to supply sufficient tanks for Lease Lend requirements, many went to New Zealand. Some of the Grants supplied to Australia are a bit iffy too by some accounts.

The disputed honey recce tank is a Stuart V.

Steve

 

thanks for the lead to the 7th armoured div Owen.doyou have any more detail as to exact units and apropriate markings?your link was interesting especially the bit at the end as i had read previosly about the canadians recieving tired british tanks and there is a pic on the cover of one of the books of a stuart in canadian markings

 

thanks for the link this appears to be the same as the photo onthe cover of the tanks in detail book.
does anybody know if the t serial numbers on british tanks follow a set date/vehicle pattern like jeep hood numbers?

 

thanks for the link this appears to be the same as the photo onthe cover of the tanks in detail book.
does anybody know if the t serial numbers on british tanks follow a set date/vehicle pattern like jeep hood numbers?

Not really Mike. They were allocated in batches or blocks of T numbers and the only reference that I have is very vague as regards model types. With no dates at all. This is all I have..

T 15132 - T 15213 Stuart I 82 in batch
T 27977 - T 28140 Stuart 164 in batch
T 37231 - T 39230 Stuart 2000 in batch
T 154891 - T 158876 Stuart 3986 in batch
T 223984 - T 224283 Stuart 300 in batch
T 231126 - T 231625 Stuart V 500 in batch
T 236262 - T 236761 Stuart 500 in batch

 

Here are a couple of pages from the 'A.F.V. Recognition, British and Allied Turreted A.F.Vs. Part 1.' of September 1942

 

I might have missed it earlier in the discussion, but what was the point of taking the turret off the tank to begin with? The Stuart was used primarily in a recon role anyway, right? Wouldn't it be more useful to have the turret with the the main gun? Was there a shortage of armored cars, or were the Stuarts being phased out and using them in this capacity was an added use? The Stuart tank has always been a favorite of mine, and this is the first I have heard of them being employed without the turret.

 

Hi A-58

This is the first I have heard of them being employed without the turret.

When I was being re-trained as a "Tankie" all we saw during our training were Shermans so you can imagine my surprise on joining my unit to find I was going into action with this bastardised version of a tank without a gun !

Having said that, it was still a rugged carrier that used to get up a fair speed over rough terrain and I was sorry to have it replaced with a Bren Gun Carrier.

Regards

Ron

 

Hi Ron
do you remember if the american tanks in british service had british radios like#19 or retained thier american factory fitted sets?

 

Mike

One of my most treasured moments in my wartime service was arriving at the RACTD (Royal Armoured Corps Training Depot) at Rieti and finding that the Sherman tanks were fitted with the British 19 set.

This was the set that I had been originally trained on and had used almost daily in my Light Ack Ack role.

See Wikopedia for details:
Wireless Set No. 19 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ron

 

thanks Ron just what i needed they seem easier to find than the us sets
Also thanks to Bodston for the serial numbers it looks like the first 2 are stuart 1then stuart2 then 3 etc so from this i have a range of serial s for the tank.its amazing what information you guys turn up!i dont suppose anybody has engineering drawings for the 37mm gun used in the tanks but you never know and it would save a long trip to borrow a gun to copy!