Homeguard/Firewatch

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Dee, Mar 2, 2004.

  1. Dee

    Dee Member

    Hi All

    Well this is my first proper posting on the WW2 forum.

    My granddad (whose history I have managed to find for WW1) was also involved during WW2, I believe, carrying out Firewatch duties (from my dad's memory). My dad also said he was sure that granddad was in the Homeguard (this would have all taken place in the Walthamstow area of London).

    Can anyone shed any light on whether a man served in both or just one of these and would they have had a service number, if so how would I go about tracing his service number?

    Any snippet of information would be really appreciated as I have absolutely no knowledge of this whatsoever.

    Many thanks in advance.

    Dee
     
  2. Chris Basey

    Chris Basey Senior Member

    Dee

    Have just checked with an ex-Home Guard who tells me that he didn't have a service number. Their name was sufficient identification.

    From what I recall many members of the HG were also Fire Watchers. One chap I can remember was a member of the Royal Observer Corps as well. At the outbreak of War they were, of course, known as the LDV - Local Defence Volunteers.

    It might be worth checking with your local Record Office/Archive Centre for any details and documents about the Home Guard - I have seen references to Minutes and account books.

    One renowned old soldier who enlisted in the Chelsea Home Guard at the age of 70 was General Sir Hubert Gough (of WW1 5th Army fame). This was after he had been turned down for full time military service when registering at Chelsea Barracks! Churchill heard of his excellent reputation in charge of the Chelsea Battalion and suggested that such a man should command all London's HG. However, Gough wished to remain at a level where he would know everyone and see what was happening so was given charge of the West London Zone. Unfortunately for him, in 1942, the Secretary of State decided that he really was too old at 72 and he was retired. (With acknowledgement to 'Goughie' by Anthony Farrar-Hockley)
     
  3. Friedrich H

    Friedrich H Senior Member

    Dee,

    Unfortunately I'm not able to answer your question. But I'd like to give you a warm welcome to the forum! ;) Hope you enjoy yourself here! :)
     
  4. Dee

    Dee Member

    Chris

    Thanks for that info, I will possibly have to visit my local office ato see if they can help me (although I don't live in London so I may have to visit there too).

    It does make sense as my dad passed on my granddads bayonet to me, a Remington, which I believe went with the Springfield rifle which was re-issued to the Homeguard during WW2 (probably totally off track here).

    Friedrich

    Many thanks for your welcome, I am hoping that I will be able to gain some invaluable knowledge which will help me with the research of my relatives.

    Regards

    Dee
     
  5. Terry Denham

    Terry Denham Junior Member

    Dee

    Chris is right about the HG not having numbers.

    The Home Guard was technically a civilian organisation and so the military did not issue numbers to them.
     
  6. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    Firewatching was often arranged on a quite informal basis. For instance, any large office block, warehouse, etc. in the London area would probably have had one or more members of staff on duty at night to report fires and put out incendiaties before the fire took serious hold. I seriously doubt if many records have survived.

    I was reading an account of the bombing of Dresden, a German city in wich the air raid precautions were not up to the standard of other German cities. One reason given for why fire took such a hold was that everyone took to the shelters rather than some people being designated as fire watchers in apartment buildings.
     
  7. BeppoSapone

    BeppoSapone Senior Member

    Originally posted by Terry Denham@Mar 11 2004, 10:29 AM
    Dee

    Chris is right about the HG not having numbers.

    The Home Guard was technically a civilian organisation and so the military did not issue numbers to them.
    However, what they did do was to have an embossed stamp stating their Home Guard unit on the back of their identity card.

    The example I have is one of the 1943 issue "Blue" cards, and the stamp is on the "For Authorised Endorsements Only" section.

    I assume that the earlier "Buff" idemtity cards would also have been marked with a Home Guard mans unit?
     
  8. smith 565

    smith 565 Junior Member

    Dee,

    Acording to the National Archives leaflet on 'The Home Front', records of service to Home Guard personnel are held by the Army Medal Office, and are available to next-of-kin.

    Address is:

    Army Medal Office
    Government Buildings
    Droitwich
    Worcestershire
    WR9 8AU

    I would be interested to hear if this is correct and what, if any, info you get. I have some medals with a Home Guard association but am not NoK, so will have to wait till the records are released!

    Good luck,

    Geoff
     
  9. Dee

    Dee Member

    BeppoSapone

    Thanks I will have to search and see if I can find that one, unfortunately the only thing my dad managed to salvage from my granddad's war days was his bayonet and WW1 bible, his stepmum had the rest so if I could trace her I may be able to find out more.

    Geoff

    That's very interesting, I will contact my dad and get a letter written for him as I suppose I wouldn't be considered NoK either. Will post on here if I get a response (mind you could take a while as the surname I require is Smith).

    Dee
     

    Attached Files:

  10. MalcolmII

    MalcolmII Senior Member

    My late Father-in-Law was manager of the Gourock ropeworks and was on firwatch on the top of the building when the Clydebank blitz occurred. He told me he was absolutely terrified but they had to kick incendiaries into the streets below to protect the works which was making ropes for the navy.

    Aye
    MalcolmII
     
  11. smith 565

    smith 565 Junior Member

    Dee,

    It might take a while in any case, as the Army Medal Office is involved. Not one of our more efficient organisations by common consent, but they do eventually get back to you! By all means include the letter from your father. Doing that should reduce your wait, because they will only ask for a letter if you don't send it!

    Geoff
     
  12. Dee

    Dee Member

    Geoff

    I am prepared for quite a wait, having worked previously for the Civil Service I am very used to long waits...... :)

    I must admit though, from all that I have learned so far, if I was given one wish it would be to meet my granddad.

    Will let you know if I have any success with the records.

    Dee
     
  13. ronaldaroo

    ronaldaroo Guest

    Originally posted by angie999@Apr 28 2004, 01:45 PM
    Firewatching was often arranged on a quite informal basis. ......
    Our local primary school - Bryn County Primary School - near Llanelli,South Wales was used for firewatching and the school log book covers the ordering of equipment etc and arrangement with the local (now closed) Bryn Fire Station.
    Ronald John Saunders
     
  14. jamesicus

    jamesicus Senior Member

    Our local Air Raid Warden announced that the neighborhood post was offering instruction on how to use stirrup pumps in combination with sandbags to extinguish incendiary bombs in case we found one burning in our house after an air raid. My mother and me went for the instruction together. One of the Air Raid Wardens explained that you couldn't extinguish an incendiary bomb with just water -- the burning magnesium would explode -- you had to smother it first with a sandbag. The drill was for one person to man the stirrup pump (submersed in a bucket of water) while the other person crept forward in a crouched posture and, using a dustbin lid for a shield, toss a small sandbag on the burning magnesium thereby smothering it -- the pump operator would then direct a spray of water on the sandbag to extinguish the incendiary bomb. Our drill was a fiasco -- my mother wasn't strong or dexterous enough to toss the sandbag on the (simulated) bomb and when we reversed roles she also wasn't strong enough to produce more than a dribble of water from the nozzle. Mercifully, we never had to use a stirrup pump/sandbag at any time during the war.
     
  15. jamesicus

    jamesicus Senior Member

    The Home Guard (1940) kept their weapons at home (no ammunition) -- my father was a corporal and had a Sten sub-machine gun -- I used to hold it and pretend I was defending against invading Nazis.

    I seem to remember most of the Home Guard in East Lancashire were issued Remington made pattern of 1914 Enfield rifles chambered for British .303 caliber ammunition.
     
  16. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Don’t for heavens sake kill yourselves laughing! But I served in the Home Guard, Both in Southampton during the Blitz, Not Nice! and later at Poole in Dorset.

    Yes, many folk went on duty, both fire watching and Home Guard duties No they never had a service number, and they did carry their rifles home with them, or we did. When at last we got hold of rifles!

    Old Lee Enfield first world war rifles, but still very good. I preferred the old one, to the bundook, I carried across France, Belgium, and Holland. That is rather brief for I can rattle on for hours about the Home Guard, When at last I got into the army, I had to report in my Home Guard uniform, and kept it, until I departed the war severely wounded in Northern Holland, after Arnhem
    Sapper.
     
  17. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Hi all
    Just a to add a word re fire-watching.
    In 1942 I was living in Houghton Regis in Bedfordshire and awaiting call-up.
    As I was then 18 years old I volunteered for Civil Defence and became one of several Air Raid Wardens for the village. We trained with the local home guard and should invasion ever have taken place then I suppose we would have been co-opted to help with local defence.
    I was also working in the East End of London at the time, commuting every day, and whilst at work became part of the local fire-watch and air raid warning system.
    Every day we would have two volunteers up on the flat roof armed with nothing more than red flags.
    The system was very simple but it worked.
    We would wait for the air-raid siren to sound and then make our way to the flat roof.
    We would scan the skyline and whenever a red flag became visible from another roof top (signifying approaching enemy aircraft) we would fix our flags to a pre-placed flagpole and scurry downstairs to warn all in the building to take cover.
    This system saved quite a lot of un-necessary sitting around in the shelter and the loss of much work-time

    Ron
     
  18. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Ron, thank you for joining us and thank you for adding that story about fire-watching. It was interesting to read. The Ministry of Information put out leaflets on the subject, and then conducted a poll to see if anyone had read them, and back came tons of wrong answers to the question, "What do you do with an incendiary bomb?" The right answer is smother it in sand, as we have seen. The wrong answer was to toss it in a puddle of water. The wrong answer kept coming back. My mother recalled that a neighbor got a visit from ARP in early 1941, who complained that the family was violating blackout with a huge light burning in the attic. The family said they had no light in the attic. They all went out to see. Turned out an incendiary strip or two had hit the house and was smoldering away, unbeknownst to them. They called the fire brigade, and did not have to pay the fine.
     
  19. Dee

    Dee Member

    Originally posted by Ron Goldstein@Nov 8 2004, 09:44 AM

    I was also working in the East End of London at the time, commuting every day, and whilst at work became part of the local fire-watch and air raid warning system.



    Ron

    I believe my granddad also carried out his fire watch & homeguard duties in the East End of London, he would have been in his forties at the time though and I think he had taken his father's trade of French Polisher by then also.


    This is all fantastic information, thank you all. It has given me a little more background for research and inclusion onto my website (when I can finally get the hang of Dreamweaver).

    From what I can gather, I think he was issued with a Springfield Rifle as we have the old Remington Bayonet.

    Mind you I did manage to trace my stepgran (via electoral roll searches and a letter to my dad's old schoolfriend), unfortunately she passed away a couple of years ago and my dad's half sister is married and living in Italy so I am no closer to finding much more.


    Dee
     
  20. Clive Harris

    Clive Harris Junior Member

    Providing a fire piquet and firewatching team became a civic responsibility for companies after the incendiary raid on the City 29th December 1940 caused so much damage. It was felt that whilst you could not prevent fires from starting in your building you could attempt to control them from spreading to adjacent premises.

    You could be a member of the Home Guard whilst firewatching, both were technically after hours voluntary activities. Walthamstow would certainly have required both. The Museum of London plus your local resource library will be useful for research, a lot of the London Civil Defence records appeared to have disapeared with the old GLC but local archives notably Westminster & Southwark have been very good to me.
     

Share This Page