Holocaust Deniers - what I really don't understand:

Discussion in 'The Holocaust' started by von Poop, May 14, 2015.

  1. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Is why they even bother denying at all.


    It seems not unreasonable to assume, that the sort of oddball that indulges in denial is generally proudly committed to the 'destruction of World Jewry' etc. etc. anyway.
    Their websites & literature tend to reflect this.
    So... why bother entering into the minutiae of the death camps etc. in their tiresome manner at all?


    You'd think they'd be cheering the horrors of the 40s to the rooftops.

    If it's down to a feeling that a modern political constituency can only begin to be built after somehow smoothing over the holocaust, then isn't there a massive logical disconnect there?
    Behave like a 40s Nazi, sound like a 40s Nazi, sometimes even dress like a 40s Nazi - you'd think they'd be proud of the activities of 40s Nazis...

    If it's more about reclaiming/rehabilitating Adolf & his boys 'reputation', it just seems weird to want to do that on one hand while espousing the same policies set at Wansee on the other.
    Why try and justify the war in some way. Why not just admit to being happy with the whole package?


    I'd have thought the logical response of a modern Nazi to the holocaust would be 'so what?'.



    I know, I know; looking for logic in that quarter rarely the most fruitful thing. Just a thought that's recently distracted me.
    And I know full well how these threads can go, so don't be surprised if I bin the whole thing if/when it attracts a pack of visiting loonies.

    ~A
     
  2. TriciaF

    TriciaF Junior Member Patron

    They're members of a club - got to keep to the rules. Which include repeating certain mantras ad nauseam.
     
  3. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    vP as you said

    Holocaust denial timeline
    Holocaust denial and distortion are generally motivated by hatred of Jews, and build on an accusation that the Holocaust was invented or exaggerated by Jews as part of a plot to advance Jewish interests. This view perpetuates long-standing antisemitic stereotypes by accusing Jews of conspiracy and world domination, hateful charges that were instrumental in laying the groundwork for the Holocaust.http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10008003

    Fanatic, self centered belief encouraged by like minded , bloody minded people with tunneled views and a deep hatred of their chosen target.
     
    canuck likes this.
  4. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    There are certain groups who would love to emulate the Nazi Holocaust.
    Something so massive and terrible could never have been hidden. The impact on the human race is immeasurable.
     
    Margaret Ann likes this.
  5. The Cooler King

    The Cooler King Elite Member

    The evidence is completely overwhelming and from the most senior Nazis in their own words and handwritting.... Gobbels own personal diary for example says....


    “ February 14, 1942: The Führer once again expressed his determination to clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that has now overtaken them. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness.]
     
  6. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Should point out that there were TWO types of people known as Holocaust deniers - first were the real ones who have most rightly

    been castigated by all and then there were other people who while agreeing to the Holocaust BUT disagreed with the NUMBERS of Jews

    killed and were mistakenly grouped in with the actual deniers.

    I am thinking particularly of the Catholic, Bishop Richard Williamson - who challenged the 6 million figure and was charged as being
    a denier and fined by the German Government.

    Many Jewish groups later admitted that the 6 million was extremely high as was closer to the figures of Catholics who were also

    killed in that same holocaust- but the Bishop remains a denier…

    Some people just can't win

    Cheers
     
  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Much of this is missing my (possibly pointless) point though.

    If you're a Nazi anyway.
    Why bother denying the holocaust at all?
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I normally stay away from this subject but I am a bit curious about Tom's remarks so....

    How many Jews did Bishop Richard Williamson claim were killed and how many Catholics were killed in the holocaust
     
  9. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    I think some deny the Holocaust in order to draw attention to their endless conspiracy theories and persecution complexes, to 'prove' that their cause is threatened now, as much as Hitler said it was in the 30s and 40s and by the same enemies ... i.e. If the world got it wrong about the Holocaust, then it's because it has been duped, again. They twist things round to say the Holocaust / its scale is a lie, invented by Jews and those sympathetic to Zionism so they can show that Nazism and its followers are the victims. Conspiracy theorists, cults, ... etc all maintain only they are part of a small circle of the 'enlightened' while others are fools for believing the truth.

    [Other deniers are the usual pathetic online trolls who've noted that Holocaust denial provokes the same type of responses as elsewhere online - when insulting people, hurting the bereaved, provoking fans, lying about their own beliefs, in order to goad others into replying. I am sure they haven't given the actual history itself a minute's thought. All they want is a reaction, the topic is irrelevant.]
     
  10. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Drew

    It is a known fact that as many as 3 million mainly Priests and Bishops and ordinary Catholics were killed in the Holocaust

    - mostly in Poland whereas the figures for the main killing centres was reduced from 4 million to 1.5 million by the Jewish

    groups themselves so the totals were about equal - difference being that the Jews were paid billions including 60 million

    from the UK - who had nothing to do with it all - the Catholics got nowt - zippo - bugger all...

    Cheers
     
    Margaret Ann likes this.
  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I think you're spot on, D. It's attention seeking really, with that 'I know THINGS, you FOOLS', or just deliberate triggering of rows.
    Personally I suspect that it's mostly the latter you find on the Internet, hence my gradual drift to the school of 'never wrestle with pigs - the pig enjoys it and you both get dirty' regarding these knobbers, but the philosophical point does still intrigue.

    If you're a Nazi engaging in holocaust denial, then you're automatically beginning from a base of denying a core part of your own ideology. Strange contradiction.
     
  12. Margaret Ann

    Margaret Ann Junior Member

    The Holocaust deniers are legion here in the U.S. I have been doing battle online with them since I began posting comments on the Yahoo Homepage over two years ago. The deniers are mostly the younger generation who are too far removed from WWII along with blame being placed on the lack of education in the schools. My comment is not an invitation to begin bashing Americans in their entirety; however, the amount of Holocaust deniers here is staggering. According to the deniers, "no, the Holocaust never happened, there were never any gas chambers, it's all a hoax, the allies bombed the railway lines to the camps, everyone died of typhus, I'm a liar when I tell them that my Father was at the Bergen-Belsen Camp after its liberation, the camp inmates had a swimming pool, an orchestra, the Red Cross examined the camps every day along with food and medicine available to every camp inmate." It might be amusing if it were not so bloody pathetic!! Oh and yes, my Father was there at the Bergen-Belsen Camp. Just my two cents!
     
  13. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Adam, I was manning the Ministry of Housinge Loony Detector van when you started this thread, and the scanner immediately started to go crazy...

    Don't bust your brain trying to figure these people out. Why do they deny? For the same reason one six year old says "T'isn't!" when his six year old enemy says "'Tis!" That's the level they work on.
     
    von Poop likes this.
  14. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I know, mate.
    Fully aware the loony fence & teams of trained loony handlers with cattle prods and earplugs will doubtless be needed soon, and that I just had an odd thought about odd people.
    But... sometimes you've gotta scratch that itch. :unsure:
     
  15. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    Ignorance is bliss.
     
  16. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial

    Adam,
    There is a rich history of denial, beginning with the senior Nazi's themselves, and for obvious reasons of self preservation. The Holocaust was unprecedented and totally irrational so there is fertile ground for those who choose attempt to refute the truth. Modern day Nazis obviously have different motivations. Ignoring the antisemitic roots for much denial, can the explanation be as simple as an attempt at image rehabilitation? Legitimacy for the Nazi philosophy is a difficult task while carrying the monstrous legacy of the Holocaust.
     
  17. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    You'd think so, Tim, but many of the serious deniers also have quite overt connections to sites declaring organised death on a variety of groups.

    There is indeed a layer of modern 'nazism' that doesn't espouse a final solution in that way, and I can perhaps understand why they might deny in a hunt for some sort of public rehab, but they're a veneer really. Most seem perhaps to indulge in denialism because... well, because they seem to feel they have to.
     
  18. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    I agree, it just seems to the the thing to do when confronted - deny any truth, whenever it suits. What really matters for them is their hatred and their superiority complex, not the route they take in order to vent them. Even if Nazis employed the same duplicitous tactics, I can imagine Adolf might well have considered them rather unworthy. After all, at the end the German people didn't meet his expectations either.
     
  19. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    :lol:
    True, I really can see Adolf shaking his head at the tiresomeness and lack of rigour found in the modern Nazi.
     
  20. TriciaF

    TriciaF Junior Member Patron

    It would be interesting to know what the leaders of the various neo-nazi groups have to say on the subject. Do they still stick to these myths? Or is it more the newcomers to their groups who keep posting the rubbish, because they haven't kept up with the facts, and want to "belong"?
    Personally I think that the original doubt arose from the longstanding view of many gentiles that Jews have always felt hard - done - by, so the story must be exaggerated. What is claimed to have happened was so preposterous that it couldn't be true.
    And it has stuck, as with other old myths still held by some, that Jews were to blame for JC's crucifixion, they use Christian blood for their matzos, they wear head coverings to hide their horns etc.
     

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