Hi all, I am hoping that someone out there maybe able to help me. This post spanes both WW1 & WW2 due to lenght of my Grandads service. When I first started researching his service my Dad told me that his Dads WW1 medals went down on ship, when it was sunk during WW2. Well looking at his service record for this period he was always based at shore establishments. So there was this question hanging over my head...was this an old sea dogs tale...or was it the truth. I had nothing to go by, unitil now. Going throuh his papers I found a ships boarding pass for SS Aguila for passage to Madeira. The dates on the pass are for August 1940. Well going by his service record he was based at HMS President III...so whats going on here, am I missing something? I am totally confused now, I know that HMS President III was a shore base in London, so what's he doing going to Madeira? He was based at HMS President III for nearly 3 years during WW2, so could it have been true about his WW1 medals going down with a ship, seeing that I've found this boarding pass for SS Aguila. SS Aguia was subsequently sunk I think in 41. Any help with this would be great. I've even thought was he some sort of secret agent seeing that the picture on the pass he's dressed in civiy clothing and the trade description is deck hand. I have posted this thread on a site covering WW1 due to its nature. What do you all think?
Hi Kieron, The time line seems to be. Your Grandfather was a passenger while she was on her regular run Liverpool - Madeira Islands (as did her sister ships) until (or shorthly after) the fall of France. The date on the boarding pass would confirm this. Either in 1941 or 1942 he joined up to serve on the shore station. Here's a photograph of her exiting the River Mersey - the shoreline is of a suburb of Liverpool - as can be seen she was quite a small vessel. Chin chin, Gerry
Cheers Gerry for your reply, like I said in my post I'd put this thread on another site to try and get as much feedback as I could. I think I am now in the position to say that while my grandad served with HMS President he was attached in some way to armed merchant ships. I've read somewhere that under some convention ruling merchant ships were not allowed to be armed and that's why the men attached to these ship were classed as Deck Hands etc...I guess just incase they were ever boarded, could be wrong. Below is some of the feed back I got from the Great War forum, another very knowledgable site. ========================== 1/ Lt Cdr. Warlow ‘Shore Establishments of the Royal Navy’ President III was an accounting base, initially in Bristol and then Windsor, it was the HQ for the personnel on Defensively Armed Merchant Ships, it does not mean he served there, but that his pay was worked out there . Royal Marines served aboard DAMS in both wars, this would have qualified him for the Atlantic Star. 2/ So if this is the case how would I find out what merchant ships he served on? When I contacted the Royal Marines they told me to go to Kew, which I did but what I got from there I had already. Regards Kieron 3/ I don’t know for sure, but I’d expect that they used a card index to record the ships on which he served and that index was destroyed. 4/ Hello PRESIDENT III was the accounting base for the naval gunners on Defensively Armed Merchant Ships (DEMS). These were the naval seamen et al that manned the guns on merchant ships. He certainly could have served any number of merchant ships in the course of the war. don ========================== So there you have it. I have got the feeling that he did serve on armed merchant ships and his WW1 medals may well have gone down with a ship, as merchant shipping did take hell of a pounding during WW2. Also during my research into this I have come across a few memorial lists, that have listed men that have died onboard merchant ships attached to HMS President. If anyone has anymore views on this please let me know. Regards Kieron
Hi. I new to this, however your story about President III confirms what my father told me about his naval service. He was a first class gunner on Merchant Ships crossing the Atlantic. He told me if a ship was hit only one vessel was allowed to go back to pick up survivors, and that a lot of the chinese who worked on these ships were often to frightened to jump into the sea and swim away from ship, he said it was an awful sight. I have his service papers, but apart from Glendower and President III being mentioned ,and he was an Act. A B and act. S.G (whatever that is) there is no other relevent information to what he told me. Lizzieferg.
Hello and welcome, Act AB = Acting Able Seaman. S.G. = Seaman Gunner. Your father would have been a gunner on DEMS service [Defensively Equipped Merchant Ships]. Do you know what other merchant ships he served on? Regards Hugh
