HMLZ 42

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by Clive John Llewellyn, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. Clive John Llewellyn

    Clive John Llewellyn Junior Member

    I have recently been given a photo of my Grandfather, Albert Wiseman, and other crew members, holding a life ring with "HMLZ 42" on it, does any one know what HMLZ stands for? Should it be HML Z42?
     
  2. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Hi Clive and welcome to WW2Talk.
    Any chance you could scan the photo and post it here? There might be some more clues in it to identify the vessel.

    Mike
     
  3. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Clive, I can't find anything on HMLZ.
    There were many Landing Craft variants (LCG, Engineering vessels etc) and I thought it might be one of those but so far....nothing.
    Could HML be His Majesty's Launch (of some sort?) but again no ref to Z42.
    Even more interested to see the picture now!
     
  4. Clive John Llewellyn

    Clive John Llewellyn Junior Member

    I don't think there are many clues in the photo. My grand father is the person holding the life ring. The crew appear to have just been for a swim.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Clive John Llewellyn

    Clive John Llewellyn Junior Member

    I have just referred back to a news paper interview my grandfather gave back in the 1950's, in it he said that he started his war time service in the RNVR on "A Lighters". Could this be the "L" ? Can any one tell me what an "A Lighter" was?

    He later went on to serve "HMS Leyland", an Asdic Ship, and then skippered Tank Landing Craft, in the Med, at Tobruk and Scicily, and then LCT 1000, landing American troops on Pmaha beach on D Day.
     
  6. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Ah, that makes sense.
    A Lighters were the first Tank Landing Craft (Mk1 LCT) and were first used in 1941 along the North African coast (Tobruk etc), invasion of NA, evacuation of Greece and Crete etc. Only about 30 Mk1 LCTs were made, swiftly followed by Mk2, Mk3 etc. I have info on these if you are interested - including photos af a couple of existing wrecks.
    Z lighters were already in use then - they were flat bottomed pontoons with an engine fitted aft but I have not seen them referred to as HMLZ.
    So it would appear your GF was an out and out Landing Craft chap, LCT 1000 would I think be a Mk4 from the number.
    My interest in LCTs is through my Uncle - he was killed on HMLCT488 (Mk3) in October 44.
    Could you give you GFs full name and number? Do you have his Service record?
    Let me know if you want to see any info on LCTs I have quite a lot including drawings, and a couple of books that might be relevant to your research.

    Mike
     
  7. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Can any one tell me what an "A Lighter" was?



    LCT Mark 1 - also referred to as ‘A’ lighters.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
  8. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Hugh - SNAP!
     
    Hugh MacLean likes this.
  9. Clive John Llewellyn

    Clive John Llewellyn Junior Member

    Thank you, Mike and Hugh, My grandfathers full name was Albert Thomas Wiseman, at the moment I do not have his number, but will try to get it ASAP, also I do not have his service record (Yet!). Any information on LCTs would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks again

    Clive.
     
  10. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Clive - I will sort some info out and post here but it might be easier to send you a CD with some stuff on. PM me your email and postal address.

    Mike
     
  11. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Clive, some pages from The War of the Landing Craft by Lund & Ludlum (New English Library, ISBN 45003039 3) I believe it is out of print but you might find a copy online or at a second hand bookshop.
    Suggest you download them to read, more to follow.
     

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  12. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Happy reading!
     

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  13. Clive John Llewellyn

    Clive John Llewellyn Junior Member

    Thanks for this, I've only just picked it up.

    CLIVE
     
  14. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Clive, if you look on the Combined Operations website, books page they list The War of the Landing Craft with a different ISBN:
    ISBN 0-572-00935-6
    Might make it easier to track down a copy.
     
  15. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Clive,
    Whilst sorting out info to put on a disk for you I came across this:

    Omaha Beach

    Many tragedies were played out during the course of D-Day, in particular on Omaha beach, assigned to the men of the US 1st and 29th Infantry Divisions. The initial wave of Company A of the 116th Infantry Regiment, landing on Dog Green sector, was decimated. The greater part of some 200 men perished on the beach or in the water. Company A were carried in by LCA’s of the Royal Navy’s 551 Flotilla off the troopship Empire Javelin. Seaman William ‘Bill’ Wain was crew of an LCA carrying them in and to the best of his knowledge and belief all the men he landed were lost.
    What befell the assault troops on Omaha beach has been well documented, not for nothing is it remembered as ‘Bloody Omaha’. Later in the morning, the Royal Navy’s LCT 1000 of ‘Q’ LCT Squadron approached the beach but because of the congestion her beaching was delayed. Present on her bridge were her commanding officer, Skipper Albert Wiseman and Signalman Arthur Tarr. Wiseman scanned Omaha beach with binoculars. The carnage was self evident. Bodies were strewn across the beach and wrecked craft littered the water's edge. Bodies of the numerous dead in the sea were carried down to the eastwards on the tide. Wiseman then passed the binoculars to Tarr so he too could view the scene, having done so, Tarr turned away...sickened.

    I will put the full piece on the disk (it will be posted tomorrow).

    Mike
     
  16. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Mike L -
    First thoughts on seeing the LCT's was Panteleria where there was a minor landing prior to Sicily - the 16/5th Lancers landed there to no opposition so they went back to North Africa in a huff for getting their tanks all dirty - but that is lot of ambulances and so I would have to say - more likely day 2 or 3 of the Sicily landings as they all look a bit casual....?
    Cheers
     
  17. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Tom,
    Many thanks for that - I like the bit about the Lancers getting their tanks all dirty:D
    Can you give an approximate date for that landing?

    Mike
     
  18. Boozyfruits

    Boozyfruits New Member

    Hi, I know this thread is over 2 years old, but it has appeared on a search for LCT 1000, on which my Grandfather served.
    I am looking for more information about the craft and what my Grandafther faced during his service.
    i have a copy of this P and V record so far.

    Wireman (LC) Victor Noel White MX610310
    He died in 1985 and was too traumatised to talk about his experiences to his children, hence the search for information from a distance.

    If folks could point me in the right direction, that would be lovely.
    Many thanks
    Rebecca White
     
  19. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Hi Rebecca, and welcome to WW2Talk.

    I take it you have read post #15 above?

    A wireman was a ship's electrician although on small vessels such as landing craft they would also have fulfilled many other functions, perhaps gunners or handling mooring ropes etc, perhaps even the cook on a landing craft.

    I am not familiar with 'P and V' records, could you post an example?
     
  20. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    [SIZE=10.5pt]Mike,[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10.5pt]P & V = Pay and Victualing. These records are very useful especially when only 'stone frigates' or shore bases are shown on a Navy service record, often the seagoing ship is not named. A great example of their usefulness - DEMS gunners.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10.5pt][/SIZE]

    [SIZE=10.5pt]Regards[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10.5pt]Hugh [/SIZE]
     

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