I am trying to establish names of the crew that were taken prisoner from this submarine and to which POW camps they were taken. I have a few snippets as the capture is well documented but I wonder if a crew list has been published and made available, it would be a start and of great help. Thanks in advance Brian
Hi Brian Not sure how much info you have but here are some links: http://uboat.net/boats/foreign_ub.htm http://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/3417.html This link (at the bottom) has National Archive references to source material so perhaps the crew list is in one of them ADM 173/16043 ADM 173/16044 ADM 173/16045 ADM 199/1840 ADM 173/16046 ADM 173/16512 ADM 173/16513 ADM 173/16514 ADM 199/2570 ADM 199/373 I also understand that only 2 members of the crew did not survive the war and make it home. They were Petty Officer Barnes and Able Seaman Smith. TD edited to add: Have you contacted the village of Seal after which the ship was named? I ask as apparently according to this article http://ww2db.com/person_bio.php?person_id=559 - "After their release in 1945 the crew visited the village of Seal to express their thanks" - they may also be newspaper reports from the time
Reference: ADM 156/283 Description: Surrender of HM SUBMARINE SEAL 5 May 1940: decision to Court Martial Lieut Cdr R P Lonsdale and Lieut T A Beet RN so providing an opportunity to vindicate themselves publicly. Charges not proved against Lieut Cdr Lonsdale; honourably acquitted Date: 1946 Held by: The National Archives, Kew Former reference in its original department Case 6783/46 Legal status: Public Record Closure status: Open Document, Open Description There 1 or 2 others but I guess the main one that might hold the crew list would be the one above http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/2?_q=hms%20seal&_p=1925 TD
You may also want to track down a copy of this book: Fatal Ascent: HMS Seal, 1940 By Melanie Wiggins https://www.amazon.ca/Fatal-Ascent-HMS-Seal-1940/dp/1862273189/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458991158&sr=8-1&keywords=HMS+Seal for more background information.
Thanks Orwell, copy on its way although one of the reviews via Amazon is critical that the book has no crew list. Perhaps it's difficult to obtain? Thanks again Brian
Petty Officer Maurice Barnes was finally added to our village war memorial in 2007 after extensive research but as far as we know there was no crew list. His brother Eric was also added then. He was on HMS Phoenix (submarine) that was sunk off Sicily in 1940. Lionboxer
Thanks lionboxer, it doesn't seem reasonable that a ship/sub. Would put to sea without recording those on-board especially as all but two became POW. Strange but probably true. Maybe the list no longer exists. I have instigated various searches, I will post the results but I'm not holding out much hope.Thanks again Brian
Brian There is some more detail in this link, including a few names of the crew - http://web.archive.org/web/20140601222910/http://cavillconnections.co.uk/seal.html - within which it says: "However, an official committee was formed by Miss Dorothy Coleman, but no sooner had they got organized than the news came that SEAL had been lost with all hands. Six months later, on finding out the crew were prisoners, Miss Coleman contacted the Admiralty, and soon all the village families were asked to adopt a crew member and keep in contact" So I would assume that there may be some village records that may provide a list of those they contacted or at least the Admiralty would have a crew list to send to Miss Coleman. TD
Tricky Dicky, I am indebted to you for that link, it covers most of my queries. I have spent hours ploughing through the newspaper archive and many publications. I seem to have accounted for 54 of the men, I think there may have been 55? I have accounted for AB Smith who went overboard. I will go back over it again tomorrow. Meantime, many thanks Brian
Nothing to do with Seal but as the loss of Eric Barnes is mentioned thought I would add details of his loss. http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2491394/BARNES,%20ERIC%20BENJAMIN Extract from - Naval Staff History WW2, Submarines, Ops in the Mediterranean Meanwhile submarine patrols had been active in other parts of the Mediterranean. Phoenix (Lieut.-Commander G. H. Nowell) and Rorqual (Lieut.-Commander R. H. Dewhurst) left Alexandria on 3rd July (1940) for the Central Mediterranean arriving in their areas on the 9th. This was just in time. The Mediterranean Fleet had been carrying out an operation to cover a convoy from Alexandria to Malta and, having been subjected to heavy air attacks, deduced that the Italian Fleet was also at sea. It was therefore decided to operate the Fleet off the Sicilian coast during the night of 9th/lOth July. Rorqual was ordered to keep north and west of a position south of Cape Spartivento, while Phoenix patrolled off the south-east corner of Sicily. At 0515/8th July Phoenix, while still on passage to her area, sighted and reported two Italian battleships with an escort of four destroyers, steering south some 180 miles east of Malta. This report was followed up by a flying-boat and resulted in the two fleets making contact. The ensuing engagement is fully described in Battle Summary No. 8. Phoenix was not heard of again after acknowledging a signal on 14th July. She was overdue at Malta on 18th July and was presumed to have been mined. From Italian records it appears that Phoenix attacked the submarine chaser Albatros about 1300 on 16th July off Augusta, Sicily, and was sunk in the depth-charge attack which followed.
A post on Axis History from 5 January 2003, linked below, says that PO Barnes escaped but was shot and killed by the USSR on 9 September 1940. http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13813
He was the only member of Seals crew who escaped from the prison camp at Thorne. Tragically he was shot by Russian border guards though his fellow escapee, a Hussar, did make a home run and visited the family to tell the story. Barnes has no known grave. Maybe he's in a village graveyard somewhere on the Russian border. Lionboxer
Thanks. The Axis History thread linked to in my previous post is otherwise about British PoWs who disappeared in the USSR after the war and it implied that there was something mysterious about Barnes's death, which you've clarified isn't the case.
Nothing too mysterious in his death, just very tragic. The mystery is where is Barnes buried and is there a paper trail to be followed somewhere? Lionboxer
I thought you might like to see the man in question. View attachment 148452 photo courtesy of the Barnes family.
Bit of an update.....after reading the two ( known to me) publications and various newspaper archives, I now have a list of 66 men. Too many so I now need to find out who was NOT on the crew. Research ongoing
