Hitlerite obsession

Discussion in 'Historiography' started by von Poop, Apr 21, 2006.

  1. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    More so in the past but even true in some places now, Jewish people tended to be quite insular. They had their own way of dressing, their own holidays, their own tight communities and even their own schools.

    This would mean that they could quite easily be seen as outsiders by the rest of the population and as we all know, outsiders are sometimes feared and if better off than the rest of the locals, can be open to accusations of greed, theft or other 'crimes'.

    It is unfortunate, but it is part of human nature. It's hard to be different.
     
  2. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    fact was that jews were very intellectual and more busy which made them quite rich and so many people

    For centuries Jews were limited to certain jews, one of which was Finance which Christians considered it to be beneath them.

    In 1190, in York, Scores of Jews were hounded into a tower and then slaughtered by the townsfolk, after they had given up their debts records.

    the world famous blood libel began in Bowthrope wood in Norwich when the body of a young boy was found, the rumour started that he had been the victom of a blood sacriface carried out by jews.

    interesting to note that the chapel dedicated to Saint william in the now Anglican catherald has been removed from sight.
     
  3. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    For centuries Jews were limited to certain jews, one of which was Finance which Christians considered it to be beneath them.

    In 1109, in york, Scores of jews were slaughtered by the townsfolk, after they had given up their debts records.

    the world famous blood libel began in Bowthrope wood in Norwich when the body of a young boy was found, the rumour started that he had been the victom of a blood sacriface carried out by jews.

    interesting to note that the chapel dedicated to Saint william in the now Anglican catherald has been removed from sight.

    I think in places in Italy and France the plague was blamed on the Jews and they were murdered.
     
  4. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    It's important to understand the Third Reich and know about Hitler, Himmler, Stalin, PolPot, Mao, Kim Jong Il so that we can understand history to try and prevent the dark side from repeating its evil menace.
     
  5. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    It's important to understand the Third Reich and know about Hitler, Himmler, Stalin, PolPot, Mao, Kim Jong Il so that we can understand history to try and prevent the dark side from repeating its evil menace.

    I agree, what's gone wrong in the past should be studied and lessons learned and not forgotten.

    But there is somewhere a line that can be crossed. That point where you look at the life and work of a dictator or regime and it is no longer through the eyes of an enthusiast, historian or student. You go over the line and you can start to hold your subject in awe. It's once you pass that line that you can cease to be an enthisiast, historian or student and can become a fanatic.

    A fanatic will look at historic truth and form it around what has happened in order to fit their ideas, making excuses if you will, if not to excuse at least to give reason. It's a short step from there to condoning actions and supporting the polotics.

    That is the danger, although I'd hope most people were intelligent enough to see the line approaching.
     
  6. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    I agree, what's gone wrong in the past should be studied and lessons learned and not forgotten.

    But there is somewhere a line that can be crossed. That point where you look at the life and work of a dictator or regime and it is no longer through the eyes of an enthusiast, historian or student. You go over the line and you can start to hold your subject in awe. It's once you pass that line that you can cease to be an enthisiast, historian or student and can become a fanatic.

    A fanatic will look at historic truth and form it around what has happened in order to fit their ideas, making excuses if you will, if not to excuse at least to give reason. It's a short step from there to condoning actions and supporting the polotics.

    That is the damger, although I'd hope most people were intelligent enough to see the line approaching.
    Theres a line??????? Darn! "walks off whistling "Horst Wessel"!!!

    Seriously thought Plant-Pilot is right. Enthusiasm and Fanaticism should not be confused.
     
  7. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Seriously thought Plant-Pilot is right. Enthusiasm and Fanaticism should not be confused.

    You mean I posted all that when one line would have done! I'm just too enthusiastic. :)
     
  8. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    You mean I posted all that when one line would have done! I'm just too enthusiastic. :)
    But cute...
    Fanaticism can come in so many different strengths: - there are those who live the period. And then there are those who try to bring it back. It's the latter that are the dangerous ones. The former just need to get out in the fresh air more.
     
  9. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Fanaticism can come in so many different strengths: - there are those who live the period. And then there are those who try to bring it back. It's the latter that are the dangerous ones. The former just need to get out in the fresh air more.

    But the former are 'Fans' in the new corrupt meaning of the word, the latter are 'fanatics' in the true meaning of the word.
     
  10. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Crazies still, whether the latter or the former.
     
  11. BarbaraHistory

    BarbaraHistory Junior Member

    Since the 1890s there developed a new form of antisemitism, which was explained by pseudoscientific racism. Darwin's evolution theory was put on society and on peoples. And the Jews were given the worst part here. And this was the most dangerous antisemitism.Then the Jews were not even allowed to live. The Nazis judged and thought the Germanic race to be the best one and the Jewish race the worst one, which had to be eliminated. The Christian antisemitism became murderous in certain crises, whereas the racial antisemitism was much worse. The scapegoat Jew helped to "explain" complicated things and feel (self)right(eous).
     
  12. BarbaraHistory

    BarbaraHistory Junior Member

    As to the Hitlerite obsession: Yes, I think quite a few young British are obsessed. According to a psychological study at the university of Aberdeen in 1999 antigermanism increases with the age of the kids,twelve years onwards...You know this sort of thing: A german schoolchild is treated badly on the schoolyard, they call him Hitler, the desperate father tries to change it, invites his son's schoolmates to improve the situation, and does it work? Of course it does, now they no longer call the German boy Hitler. Now they call him Adolf! I'm afraid the situation hasn't improved. Even the German ambassador is occupied with it.
     
  13. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Hey Barbara, nice to see you back.
    You are right about the kids, it's indoctrinated into them early, whether people realise it or not. There are times i just wish someone would come up behind the little darlings while they are doing it and give them a clip around the lughole for their bother. And then make them sit down and learn the reality.
    Unfortunately the product of that study from Aberdeen study in 99 is now at my college as the FE students. I can see clearly why they got the results they did.
     
  14. Tyrulf

    Tyrulf Member

    Great Britain surely is a beautiful country and I would like to take vacations there but... I fear that I am getting stabbed from behind if they hear my german accent.
     
  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Great Britain is a beautiful country and I would like to take vacations there but... I fear that I am getting stabbed from behind if they hear my german accent.

    Come on over you'll love it. We love German's really.
    Honestly I doubt if you'll have any trouble at all.
    If you get to Wiltshire look me up.
     
  16. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Great Britain is a beautiful country and I would like to take vacations there but... I fear that I am getting stabbed from behind if they hear my german accent.
    Nooo mate!
    The problem exists in idiot football supporters and ocaisional tabloid silliness.
    My mate Patricia from Hameln has lived here for years and she's never had any sort of serious problem, the worst she gets is P**s-taking in the pub by her friends and as she's one of the scariest females i've ever known that's never bothered her. Don't let anyone inflate the problem enough to scare you off mate. It aint true.:)

    I honestly believe that In social situations Germans/Austrians and Britischers tend to get on very well, quite similar in outlook really.
     
  17. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Great Britain surely is a beautiful country and I would like to take vacations there but... I fear that I am getting stabbed from behind if they hear my german accent.

    Hey, I live in Germany and very few people mention the war to me. I don't think you should worry about being stabbed in the back, but the price and temprature of the beer? Now there's a worry :mellow:

    But you'd get used to it!
    :cheers:
     
  18. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    I agree, what's gone wrong in the past should be studied and lessons learned and not forgotten.

    But there is somewhere a line that can be crossed. That point where you look at the life and work of a dictator or regime and it is no longer through the eyes of an enthusiast, historian or student. You go over the line and you can start to hold your subject in awe. It's once you pass that line that you can cease to be an enthisiast, historian or student and can become a fanatic.

    A fanatic will look at historic truth and form it around what has happened in order to fit their ideas, making excuses if you will, if not to excuse at least to give reason. It's a short step from there to condoning actions and supporting the polotics.

    That is the danger, although I'd hope most people were intelligent enough to see the line approaching.

    I always felt you could quickly tell whether someone has crossed the line by whether or not they show up at a wargame convention wearing an SS uniform, would only play the German side in the gaming room (with laminated German coutners) and started talking about how Hitler was a "misunderstood genius" between turns. :wacko:

    Actually, you can tell. How people behave, what people read, what they wear, what they say, tells you if this is a guy who studies the war for interest or occupation or a guy who sees himself as a new generation of stormtrooper.

    It's actually a question I have asked myself, because of my work on the war...would somebody meeting me think I was a historian or a junior Fascist?

    I have a pile of books on the Nazis, by virtue of my work on WW2, biographies of Hitler and the Nazi leaders, but nobody coming into my room would think I was a neo-Nazi fanatic. No reproduction Nazi posters, no piles of newsletters and literature from neo-Nazi groups, none of the standard works of the neo-Nazi movement on my shelves. You will find 30 volumes of the New Zealand Official History of WW2, 15 of the Australian, four of the Canadian, 30 of the American (as books) and 20 more on CD, and a lot of books on baseball and New York history. But I still wonder. I periodically ask visitors to my home, when they see my shelves, what they think...and after they recover from the surprise of the question, they agree (at least to my face), that it's not Nazi-worshipping.

    You don't have to go too far to find the fanatics. Sadly, they're all over the web, and when you read their pages, your stomach turns. I'm not sure if their slavishly loyalty and admiration for kleptomaniac mass murderers is the worst thing...or the mass of conspiracy theory masquerading as fact, or the deliberate lies and falsification.

    However, they invariably have a lot of UFO conspiracy stuff, which provides desperately needed comic relief from their bizarre views.

    So I think the test might be to ask a guy who's heavily into the Nazis what he thinks about conspiracy theories and UFOs. o_O
     
  19. Story

    Story Member

    THEY ARE STILL OUT THERE.

    Yesterday, in America -
    Roughly 75 members of the National Socialist Movement got off the buses and rallied on the Capitol steps. Police estimate roughly 500 to 600 people met them -- either in support or protest.
    Of that number, only a handful were supporters. Most gathered were against the group, including Janet Okagbue of Okemos -- and her daughter.
    http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/2678471.html



    Yesterday, in Germany -
    There are currently 41,000 right-wing extremists active in the country, of whom 10,000 are deemed to be violent neo-Nazis or skinheads, according to an estimation from Germany`s security agency, the Verfassungsschutz. In several eastern German states, including in Brandenburg, where Mulugeta was attacked while he waited at a bus stop, the neo-Nazi scene is flourishing. Here, Germany`s re-unification has led to mass unemployment, with rates going up to as much as 30 percent.
    http://news.monstersandcritics.com/europe/article_1157090.php/Germany_fights_neo-Nazis


    And in England -
    David Cameron has accused the British National Party of "thriving on hatred" amid fears that it is set for gains at the English local elections
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4936318.stm
     
  20. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    Barbara, Its not just the accent. My mother in law is only half German and she always gets stares when we go to Italy in the South. I've had Tedeschi mumured at me under their breath. One time I responded no sonno Americano and they blushed.

    Don't let ignorance of others ruin a good time but also always be safe.
     

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