Hitler Escaped

Discussion in 'Books, Films, TV, Radio' started by Gage, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. Drusus Nero

    Drusus Nero Banned

    Well, that just about wraps it up, for this squalid little attempt to make a buck or two out of Neo-Nazi's, Neo-Stalinists, and other toe-rags of society.

    I'd like to thank all those for contributing. Firstly to Gerrard for providing such a lively topic of well meaning but unfortunate fiction. I think, personally, that his great nemesis, our own and well loved "Lawrence of Arabia" PHYLO ROADKING has survived taunts, personal besmirchment, invasion of privacey, and other inequalities to emerge as the clear winner in this contest.

    But nothing's predictable in this tough, harsh, highly comptetive world of publishing where todays journalistic sensation, is tomorrows chicken shit.

    Sadly, I don't think anyone here has successfully encapsulated Proust in his entirity, so I'm going to award the prize to the girl with the biggest tits.....(yayyyy!!!!)

    Next time we want to have a "All England Summarize" competition featuring children's fiction, Gerrard will be the first person we call.

    And back to you in the studio, Norman!
  2. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    YOU are Tracy Emin and I claim my £5! :)
    TTH likes this.
  3. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Roger...what you're basically saying is - Levenda screwed the pöch...

    I thank you, I'm here all week, don't forget to tip your waitress...
  4. Roger Clark

    Roger Clark Junior Member

    GREY WOLF legal letter published on Internet

    A 9-page legal letter revealing some of the problems that have beset the film GREY WOLF - the escape of Adolf Hitler has surfaced on the Internet. The film is based on the controversial book of the same name by Simon Dunstan and Gerrard Williams. The film was supposed to have appeared when the book was publiished in 2011. But its appearecne was delayed two years as the movie became bogged down in legal, financial and production problems.

    Stories about Hitler fleeing to South America are nothing new. The Argentine journalist, Abel Basti, has dedicated his life to investigating the history of Nazis arriving in Argentina. Long before Dunstan and Williams appeared on the scene Basti published his findings in his 2003 book Hitler In Argentina.

    When he heard about the Dunstan and Williams book - and the film - Abel Basti was up in arms. In an interview printed in the Brasil de Fato newspaper on 20 October 2011 he accused the authors of 'plagiarism' and said he was taking legal action. The paper published the writ he had issued on 14 September against the authors and publishers. Basti claimed they were infringing his copyright. Grey Wolf, he alleged, 'includes material, documentation and research of which I am the sole author and exclusive copyright owner.' He had 'never authorized' them to publish this material. Basti demanded they scrap the book and associated film. In addition, he insisted they remove from YouTube and elsewhere videos advertising the project. He told them: 'I hereby formally and legally demand that you immediately refrain from publishing and putting the work you are offering for sale in circulation and that the above-referenced promotional video be removed from the world wide web.'

    He then engaged a lawyer in London to take up his case. You can read his original legal documents clicking on the link below:-


    In the meantime I've posted all 9 pages below...










    I've watched the film GREY WOLF - the escape of Adolf Hilter. This is as bad as the book on which it is based. None of the material mentioned in the above letter seems to appear in the film. Nor is Abel Basti mentioned in any way. His name doesn't even appear in the credits at the end.

    This is not the end of this long-running saga. A lot more has yet to appear in thepublic domain. So keep your eyes open. You never know what will happen next!
    custerstand likes this.
  5. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    There will only be two winners here.

    First the revisionists, who will have a lot of Publicity to further enhance their views and secondly the Legal Profession, who will command large fees for their work.

    Proper Historians come a poor third!

    pensioner1938 likes this.
  6. Roger Clark

    Roger Clark Junior Member

    Second GREY WOLF legal letter talks about 'racist ideology' website

    A few weeks after the London lawers fired off the 9-page GREY WOLF letter they fired off a second. It said that 'the Book has been made availble on the website WN Library ... The website professes to be an educational resource but some of the content and in particular the "disclaimer" reveals that it promulagates racist ideology. Please can you inform us of your actions to address this.'

    And here is a copy of that letter. Press on the image to enlarge so you can read the words.


  7. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    “There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.” ― Oscar Wilde

    (I admit there is some irony here about posting that and bumping the thread)
  8. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Is anyone actually interested in this ?
    I'm not.
    dbf and von Poop like this.
  9. Roger Clark

    Roger Clark Junior Member

    Owen ... This topic has to do with historical memory and truth. There is now a large Hitler survival industry distorting the historical record and fooling thousands of people. The writers of these books are rubbishing renowned historians and historical institutions and huge numbers of people believe them. Grey Wolf is a glaring example which is why it's being discussed. Conspiracy theorists do harm. Their numbers are growing. Which is why the historian, Prof Sir Richard Evans, and others are taking action to expose what they're doing.

    If you're uninterested in the topic then ignore it. Please don't try to discourage people from discussing the subject and revealing what's happening. It's important.
  10. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    My take - if people believe this stuff it's because they want to, not because there isn't enough information out there in various formats to the contrary. We've seen a fair few conspiracy theories on here over the years so that's nothing new.

    11 pages - on this thread alone - and it apparently still isn't enough to save these "huge numbers of people" from their ignorance? I feel this is now getting bogged down in minutiae of who said what, and launched what in legal terms etc, getting further away from the core issue.

    So I'm wondering - Does any member believe Hitler escaped ...?
  11. Lotus7

    Lotus7 Well-Known Member

    Hitler's dead and gone.
  12. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    There's a lot to what Roger says; all these conspiracy theories...of ALL types...rely on the trivialising of real historians and history. All the effort and time and research out into it. And it rubbishes any standard or concept of evidence for the future. Yes, it's great what Fest or Beevor or Kershaw or Hitler's Death says...but they don't find their way onto supermarket shelves in the shape of a DVD. Greywolf is supermarket shelf fodder, nothing better.

    Except - look at the Amazon reviews - the ones that aren't obvious shills, that is. "This is false history, but it's a good read, so I gave it five stars"....what? They read a work of plagarised fiction...they KNOW it is...yet they gave it five stars - when they didn't buy it as fiction in the first place.

    I can understand why Richard Evens et al are starting to take the stand they're doing - my sole issue would be they're decades late! Historians should not just be working to address the lack of knowledge...but also the misuse of it.
  13. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    So someone was entertained, category or not - their choice, their money spent ... I've been entertained by crap 'war' movies on the TV for years. I don't need to read all those sites listing each and every error either to tell me they're crap either.

    All I'm saying is that we're 11 pages on. Any amount of '... and another thing ...' won't rid the world of gullible types and conspiracy theories about Hitler surviving. And the congregation here consists of the converted, even before the thread started.

    Anyway, I'm still with Owen, so me bumping up this thread with more replies is just self-defeating.
  14. Roger Clark

    Roger Clark Junior Member

    I'm referring people to articles on this site in my Amazon reviews. I'm glad most people on WW2TALK are sensible and well informed when it come to Hitler's death and other matters. But many Amazon customers - as Phylo points out - are not. It's impossible to post images in Amazon reviews to prove what one's saying is true - that photos are being misinterpreted, or even doctored, by conspiracy theorists. So I've provided some evidence on page 10 for those who disbelieve to ponder.

    People who defend the establish view of Hitler's death have come under attack from CTs. One accused me and all the authorities I quoted of 'staight up lying.' Well, WW2TALK gives me and others an opportunity to lay out more evidence. As far as GREY WOLF is concerned some of this is extraordinary. But there it is - for all the world to read. I hope what is being revealed about GREY WOLF will give its gullible supporters cause to reflect on the people who are behind this project. Can they really trust the people peddling Hitler survival myths?

    The early pages of this forum ridiculed survival theories. Fair enough. Stupid ideas deserve such treatment. Unfortunately, ridicule on its own has proved insufficient. We have to deploy evidence and arguments which many members of this forum have at their finger tips.

    I'm sorry if this irritates some people. But I think they should consider the wider debate going on. I thought Hitler survival stories had died out years ago. But no! They're pouring off the presses and convincing thousands of readers. It's a live issue. And if a person believes one conspiracy theory they're likely to believe others - such as the Holocaust never happened. And all mainstream historians are shills and impossible to trust.

    So I think people should speak out and stop the distorters of history having a free run.
  15. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Rog carry on
  16. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    O we all have - but if we'd gone to see them as (at least semi-) factual or fact-based accounts - and they turned out not to be - we can be entertained but not to the point of managing to totally overlook the fact (sic) that the film wasn't as originally portrayed :P
  17. snailer

    snailer Country Member

    The Leverhulme Trust has awarded a £1.6m grant to Professor Sir Richard Evans, Professor John Naughton and Dr David Runciman of Trinity Hall for a five-year study of “Conspiracy and Democracy: History, Political Theory and Internet Research:”


    1.6 million reasons to take a stand it seems
    dbf likes this.
  18. Drusus Nero

    Drusus Nero Banned

    Dr David Runciman?

    He wouldn't be any relation to Steven Runciman would he? I was amazed to see Steven's name pop up in a Kennedy conspiracey theory book, "On the Trail of the Assassins."

    Sir Steven Runciman was one of the names listed in the address book of Clay Laverne Shaw, a CIA operative, and the only man ever prosecuted by anyone for Kennedy's murder.

    Sorry, OT.
  19. Roger Clark

    Roger Clark Junior Member

    Did Hitler and Eva have a granddaughter?

    O we all have - but if we'd gone to see them as (at least semi-) factual or fact-based accounts - and they turned out not to be - we can be entertained but not to the point of managing to totally overlook the fact (sic) that the film wasn't as originally portrayed :P

    Phylo makes an important point. There's a wealth of difference between bad, but entertaining, war movies that are clearly labelled as works of fiction and war movies that claim they are historically accurate and rubbish the truth. GREY WOLF the movie - and the book on which its based - claims to be historically accurate. In 2011 it put out an advert for the film on YouTube. It's still there for the whole world to read and ends with these words:-

    Hitler escaped to Argentina. And it was there, 17 years after his alleged suicide in Berlin, at 3pm on 13 February 1962 - tormented, demented and betrayed - the most evil man of the 20th century finally died ... We were lied to.

    'We were lied to'? ... Strong words! They attack and undermine countless historians and experts who have established what happened. And those same words are repeated at the end of the movie. Indeed the movie goes further. It quotes a woman as saying: 'They say Eva is still alive. But that would be ridiculous. She would be 96.'

    To drive the point home we cut to a street scene captioned: 'Buenos Aires, Argentina. November 2008.' There we see an elderly woman being pushed along in a wheelchair by a young woman who calls her 'Grandma.'

    They are actors, of course, like most of the people who appear in the film. But they claim to portray and quote real people. So according to the GREY WOLF film Eva Braun was alive just a few years ago. And Hitler's granddaughter is probably strolling around Argentina right now!

    Why does this matter? Because thousands of people believe this nonsense. Have a look at the five and four star reviews on Amazon where customers gleefully insult reputable historians and experts and call them liars. Read the defamatory attacks on critics who dare to suggest these books and films are untrue.

    That's why I think it's worthwhile examining in depth the people behind these books and films. Although GREY WOLF is junk history the movie is a lush production. There's money behind it. The credits list over 50 actors, 15 voice over artists and 60 people on the production side, including a person who composed original music. In addition 25 people are thanked for their help. Then there's the expensive art work for a carboard slipcase for the DVD. As far as production is concerned the film looks professional and is convincing the gullible who are unable to see behind the fictional facade.

    [SIZE=13.63636302948px]I reget to say this is an ongoing saga. The book and the film are on sale at this moment. This is not something we can dismiss as unimportant and irrelevant. It's happening right now. [/SIZE]
  20. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Phylo can I make a fictionalised film of this saga with you as hero protagonist?

    Give you a whip, hat, and Webley to top it off?

    [In all seriousness I follow this thread with great interest, as the story behind the book/film guff is absolute gold. I think anyone would struggle to make this farce up.]

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