good day gage,sm,posted 29 aug,2011,12:22pm. re:hitler escaped,i have been reading this old thread,a lot of humour,some not so far fetched,but I just want to add my thoughts.with the massive backup that hitler had,i find it hard to believe he shot himself,i lean towards the argentina.there were thousands of germans living there,most leaning the nazi way,they would have deemed it an honour to safe guard hitler and his entourage,its just a thought,regards bernard85
There is NO way that Hitler et al went to Argentina via Spain.....it take five hours just to get into Gibralter ..and that's next door Cheers
The author of Grey Wolf lives about 10 mins from me , a odd little character ,at present lives in a large house on edge of 7 Valleys , the crazy thing is i have spoken to local expats who belive the whole thing! and some of these are proffesonial people who run large companies in the UK ! Gerrard gave a talk in a local bar and had copies of his garbage history for sale not sure if many sold ,there was also a showing of the film which i understand is awful . When you try to reason with these people they have this superior we know something that you dont look ,when you explain about the poor health Hitler had and was already showing signs of Parkinsons and how could he last to 1962 they show a blank , when you say look Eichemann was living in a bedsit mending clocks in a rundown town with a empty fridge ,so how was Hitler living it up on a farm , then point out th books by people who were in the bunker to the final hours , the well documented escape attetmps by other groups , they just say but ah you should listen to Gerrard , i also say and yes have you read the 1990s Icelandic thriller the Bonapart Option ,which details Hitler being smuggled out ,his plane crashes ,and finally ends up on a island off Argentina and dies in the 1950s ! yes a good holiday read ,great fiction and so where did you get the idea Gerrard ? And now he has book 2 on the blocks ! titled Where did the money go ? Also dont think he has made any money in fact the oppsite.
Money Property development view over golf course Next thing we will be told he was a groundsman and looked after the bunkers http://www.harrowobserver.co.uk/west-london-news/local-harrow-news/2010/09/06/jewish-family-defiantly-live-in-pinner-house-built-by-nazi-war-criminal-116451-27211832/
last week i watched poor old Gerrard walk in his front door of the house he is renting ,stumbles along , checks for any would be hit men and goes in ,its as though he belives he is liveing in a Harry Palmer movie all very sad .
at the end of the day there will always be conspiracy theories behind history, as humans we are all curious creatures. there has been many books & documentaries based on conspiracy theories, Was the titanic really the Olympic? was the pyramids build by aliens? Assassination of JFK princess Diana? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories it all makes makes for an interesting read, an interesting debate & a stimulation of the mind
No i understand the Mrs is in UK , he lives on his own in the rented house , hangs out in a bar in town trying to flog copies of book and has held a coupke of talks in the bar on the story ,one talk was invatation only! i cant be botherd to go along to argue the toss with him , but have been supplying questions to a few lads to through at him ,he does his normal sloping shoulders routine . Have been told that apart from the Hitler thing hes harmless ,does the normal barfly thing , but then walks home as though the CIA ,FBI ,SIS , MOSSAD and god knows who else is after him all a bit sad .
Easy, chaps. Don't want to get too stalky here. That blog's interesting though, well spotted, Roger. ( Conspiracy and Democracy: History, Political Theory and Internet Research The Leverhulme-funded project based at Cambridge University at CRASSH )
Critic of bogus Hitler book censored on Amazon Amazon.com is now censoring critics who dare contest false claims made by Hitler survival conspiracy books I've written a number of long, detailed reviews on Amazon criticising Hitler survival books. At times I've been savagely attacked. Now conspiracy theorists are engaged in a dirty tricks campaign. The latest move is to attack me and delete my replies. I wrote a long review criticising Harry Cooper's bogus Hitler survival book Hitler in Argentina. My review is called Hopeless nonsense - Save your money. A number of reviewers praised my comments, but one - Mr J. Bauernschmidt - cast slurs on my integrity and posed many questions. I posted a point-by-point reply. Imagine my surprise when I found my reply was deleted. I posted it again. The same thing happened. My reply was removed. Indeed my reply has - so far - been removed - five times by Amazon, though Mr Bauernschmidt's slurs and unanswered questions remain. I thought Forum readers might like to read Mr B's attack and my uncensored reply:- --------------------------------------------------------------------- J. Bauernschmidt comments on Roger Clark's Amazon review of Hitler in Argentina A perusal of his book reviews shows Roger Clark's vehement debunking of the theory that Hitler escaped to Argentina. Having done extensive research on the JFK murder and 911 official story, I recognize evidence that demands a verdict. When evidence contradicts what people want to believe, a "spin" is put on the truth. Roger Clark is no exception. He writes, "How many times must I repeat when reviewing Hitler escape books that Bormann died in Berlin at the end of the war in 1945." Oh really? Here are two well researched books, which claim otherwise. Martin Bormann: Nazi in exile, and Aftermath Martin Bormann and the Fourth Reich. The first book can be downloaded for free. Do a google search. The author of the second book wrote that he personally met Martin Bormann in South America. Futhermore, Harry Cooper's book, Hitler in Argentina: The Documented Truth of Hitler's Escape from Berlin, features on page 257 an account of someone who actually encountered Martin Bormann in Colombia, South America in 1947. The official story of Martin Bormann having died in Berlin in 1945 can be easily debunked. Mr. Clark puts his own "spin" on Don Angel Alcazar de Velasco. He writes, "According the files in Britain's National Archives he was a dubious character:- `The files contain transcripts of Velasco's telephone conversations and also those of his associates, who talk about him in mostly unfavourable terms." Wasn't this Don Angel a successful spy? The world of espionage is based on deception and is full of backstabbers. However, does this world he came from mean that he is not going to give truthful testimony some 40 years later? Mr. Clark verbosely contests Don Angel's statements about Hitler's choice of clothing. My response? Inconsequential. Roger Clark conveniently ignores the FBI files. They got declassified within the past 10 years and can be attributed to the attention this theory of Hitler in Argentina is getting. Just google "Hitler, Argentina, FBI files" in order to see them. They give the reports of eye witnesses who saw Hitler disembark a submarine in Argentina and report the ranch where he lived. Harry Cooper's book contains copies of newspaper articles corroborating the info in the FBI files. On page 248, an article refers to the German submarines in Argentinean waters for up to 3 months after the war ended. An article on page 256 publishes the report from a Chicago Times correspondent that Hitler is "safe on Patagonia Estate" in Argentina. If the US govt. really believed that official story of Hitler's suicide in Berlin, then why did they keep this extensive file on Hitler in Argentina? Roger Clark also ignores statements by Eisenhower and Stalin expressing the belief that Hitler survived. Whatever Roger Clark's motives are for trying to vehemently debunk this theory, so be it. The evidence demands a verdict different from the official story. [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ This attack excited a frenzied response from the author Harry Cooper in the SH Newsletter. This is some of what Cooper had to say about me:- --------------------- *RAVING ROGER* - He is at it again, Roger Clark - the man who knows absolutely everything about anything, or so it would appear in his ravings. When our book "Hitler in Argentina" first came out, he inked a scathingly critical review about it that appeared to be as long as the book! JAMES BAUERENSCHMIDT (7789-2014) wrote his own analysis of the book, cutting Clark's comments to shreds. Clark came back again and again with his alleged 'proof' which all boiled down to merely parroting official government reports which, as we now know, were carefully crafted fiction. JAMES tore up Clark's comments again and again until it almost appeared as if Clark was obsessed with our book. Thanks Roger. We know it is a great book. In a recent rant, Clark wonders why Amazon is not inking his comments any longer and wonders if there is a 'conspiracy' against him. We think it is most likely that Amazon realizes that he is all but consumed with trying to discredit our book which is a waste of his time since our book is absolutely and solidly based on hard facts. Some have advanced the theory that Clark is paid by (you fill in the blanks here) to discredit all such books that set history straight. Who knows.........it is certain that Clark will never admit this.' ------------------------------------------ Roger Clark responds to Harry Cooper's attack in the SH Newsletter Like his book Cooper's remarks are full of false claims and inaccuracies. It's untrue to suggest I work for an organisation he can't even name. Nor am I paid to discredit his, or anyone's, books. Where's the proof? It's also untrue to say his book is "absolutely and solidly based on hard facts". I have quoted numerous international authorities in my reviews who rubbish Hitler and Bormann survival myths. I'm not a lone wolf pursuing some eccentric personal agenda. When Cooper can get the whole weight of the academic world behind him people may take him more seriously. So far this has failed to happen. Like many writers of pseudo history Cooper objects to people who write long reviews analysing his theories and presenting expert evidence that contradicts his claims. Cooper claims my proof - he calls it 'alleged proof' - 'all boiled down to merely parroting official government reports which, as we now know, were carefully crafted fiction.' This is untrue and defamatory. It defames named individuals - forensic experts of the utmost integrity - who have examined the evidence and gone public with it, including countless serious historians. I'm not just 'parroting official government reports' that are 'carefully crafted fiction.' Hitler and Bormann survival myths are rejected by experts all over the world. In March 2012 Sergio Widder, the Latin America director of Nazi hunters the Simon Wiesenthal Center, stated:- 'Argentina was the main haven for Nazi war criminals. Men like Mengele and Eichmann were protected by the Argentine state. But there is no serious evidence Hitler survived the war, let alone came to Argentina. These stories should be for novels, not history.' The Simon Wiesenthal Center is the world’s leading Nazi hunting organisation. Why are they wrong about Hitler and Harry Cooper right? The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington has no doubts Bormann died in 1945 as you can see if you visit their website. There they state:- 'Bormann died in an effort to flee Berlin in the last days of World War II, but was long thought to be at large. He was tried in absentia at Nuremberg, where he was sentenced to death. West German authorities officially declared him dead in 1973 after his remains were discovered and positively identified.' Why is the memorial museum wrong and Harry Cooper right? Why does he know so much more than the experts who have studied this issue for decades? Yad Vashem, the world centre for Holocaust research in Jerusalem, also denies Hitler survived the war. So does the Wiener Library, another leading authority on the Holocaust and Nazi era. So does Bundesarchiv (German Federal Archive). So does “Encyclopaedia Britannica” which has exacting standards of accuracy. These organisations are stuffed with experts who have contacts with thousands of knowledgeable people all over the globe. Why are they wrong and Harry Cooper right? Cooper claims Bauernschmidt cut my 'comments to shreds' ... Really? I suggest my reply was censored five times because I answered Mr B point by point and showed up the falsity of his facts and his arguments. Readers can judge for themselves as I print my Amazon rebuttal in full:-. Roger Clark's censored Amazon reply J. Bauernschmidt is flogging a dead horse with his arguments. The only people spinning history are conspiracy theorists who argue Hitler survived WW2. I have good reason to doubt this book is true. Hence my review. Comments about JKF's murder and 9/11 are irrelevant in a discussion about Hitler and Bormann. You say I `verbosely' contest Velasco's statements about Hitler's choice of clothing and my remarks are `Inconsequential.' I'm sorry Mr Bauernschmidt finds facts tiresome and objects to my subjecting the statements of a dedicated Nazi to close scrutiny. But they prove Velasco was wrong and had only the flimsiest grasp of evidence. Velasco claims he was `called to the Führer's side ... I spent the last three months of the war in the Führerbunker, Hitler's headquarters beneath the Reich Chancellery.' Yet despite three months contact Velasco is unable to describe accurately what clothes Hitler habitually wore. It's an important detail and a warning about his unreliability. Mr Bauernschmidt says I should read Paul Manning's book "MARTIN BORMANN - Nazi in exile" ... I have! And what do I find? Manning demolishes Velasco's credibility in a few sentences. On page 172 Manning confirms Hitler and Eva Braun committed suicide in the Berlin bunker in 1945. Velasco claims Hitler escaped to Argentina and Eva died elsewhere. Velasco also claims he and Bormann together escaped to Argentina onboard a submarine in the summer of 1946. Manning destroys that argument at a stroke. He claims Bormann boarded a ship the next year - that's 1947 - `a rather sizeable freighter' - sailed to South America and `steamed into the harbor of Buenos Aires in the winter of 1947'. Velasco is never mentioned in Manning's book. He never had conversations with Bormann onboard a submarine, or anywhere else. Mr Bauernschmidt says I should read "AFTERMATH - Martin Bormann and the Fourth Reich" by Ladislav Farago ... I have! ... And what do I find? He too says `Hitler committed suicide' in Berlin in 1945. He describes how Adolf's and Eva's `gasoline-soaked bodies' ... were `consumed by the flames'... So again Velasco was wrong when he claimed Hitler survived and escaped. And when did Bormann enter Argentina? According to Farago he arrived by boat in 1948. So which year did Bormann arrive in South America - 1946, 1947, or 1948? The answer? ... None of them as Bormann died in Berlin in 1945. Both Manning and Farago dismiss the discovery of Bormann's remains in Berlin 1972 which proved this basic fact. And their books were published too early for the devastating DNA confirmation years later that proved beyond doubt that Bormann never left Hitler's capital at the end of WW2. Another point... Mr Bauernschmidt says Ladsilas Farago `wrote that he personally met Martin Bormann in South America.' Some meeting! Even Farago derides it. On page 491 he wrote:- `It was at this stage (1973) that I saw Martin Bormann - saw him is the right word, because it would be too much to say that we met.' You're telling me! After being given the run-around by various con-men who were trying to get him to pay $500,000 for Bormann's bogus memoirs (which he admits contained nothing of interest about Hitler) Farago was taken to a remote hospital in Bolivia. There, he tells us, he was granted `a five-minute visit (with no questions asked and, certainly, no answers given.)' On entering the room he found a senile, old man propped up in bed who uttered two sentences:- `Dammit, don't you see I'm an old man? So why don't you let me die in peace?' Farago left. And that's it! No interview, no photographs, no finger-prints. Hardly conclusive proof that Bormann survived the war. Mr Bauernschmidt says, `Roger Clark conveniently ignores the FBI files.' I don't. I say the intelligence files quote alleged sightings, not hard proof that Bormann, or Hitler, lived in South America. Nothing is ever followed up. There is no evidence of genuine face-to-face meetings, or any reputable documentary evidence, artefacts, graves etc. As for the woman on page 257 who heard someone shout the name "Martin!" at a party and later concluded it was Martin Bormann. Come on, this is like thousands of sightings not hard evidence! Some of these sightings were genuine mistakes, others were fraudsters. By the late 1940s the British Intelligence service MI5 became exasperated by these kind of sightings. You can find out about some of them in an article written by Beth Hale in the "Daily Mail" newspaper called:- " MI5 obsession with Hitler's deputy Martin Bormann led Britain on Nazi goose chase." Conspiracy theorists are great ones for seizing on discrepancies when it comes to official sources and historians. But they can't agree with each other! Yet we're expected to lap up their false claims and rubbish reputable authorities. Mr Bauernschmidt questions my motives. They're simple. To inform readers about authoritative sources and warn them about false claims, conspiracy theories and scurrilous historical gossip. No amount of bluster will make these legends true. SO PLEASE STOP DELETING MY INFORMED AND DETAILED COMMENTS. IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE WITH WHAT I SAY THEN ARGUE - DON'T SUPPRESS. ABOVE ALL PRESENT CAST-IRON EVIDENCE. WHERE IS IT? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So there it is - the attack and my reply. I wonder if other Forum readers have found their arguments censored by Amazon, or anyone else? And what do you think of this tactic employed by conspiracy theorists to silence their critics so they can spread their untruths? Meanwhile, if you want to read my review that sparked this controversy visit the Amazon website and look up the book Hitler in Argentina. Among the one star reviews you'll find my analysis. My article is entitled Hopeless nonsense - Save your money.
Bogus Hitler photos in Harry Cooper's book Hitler in Argentina In my Amazon review of Hitler in Argentina I criticised the author - Harry Cooper - for the misleading way he used evidence. The one star review - entitled "Hopeless nonsense - Save your money" - angered conspiracy theorists. Some retaliated. One anonymous critic accused me of 'spewing complete inaccurate disinformation ... quoting false sources etc. 'It's an obvious disinfo effort,' he declared. I was 'merely a liar,' he said. 'You should be banned from amazon.' My critic denounced me in post after post. 'It's really nasty,' he raged, 'what he and a few others are doing here and how they are straight up lying and pushing the old propaganda and trying to influence people ... Amazon should ban you for life for your ranting and your foolishness and nonsense that you are trying to pull here; and the authors of these books should file suit against you for multiple reasons ... Ah I see now, you must be jewish, now it makes perfect sense ... You are a known member of a jewish hate group.' I'm sorry to disabuse my critic. But I'm not a member of any hate group - let alone 'a known Jewish hate group.' I'm not even Jewish. All this because I dared to suggest that Hitler and Bormann survival books are untrue! Others also condemned my evidence and arguments. Nonetheless, despite the fury of conspiracy theorists my critical reviews remained on Amazon, even if some of my replies to misleading comments made about them were removed. And I stick by what I've written. My reviews are carefully researched and quote authoritative sources. They're not just expressions of personal opinion. These Hitler and Bormann survival book are untrue. Witnesses quoted by authors such as Harry Cooper in his book Hitler in Argentina are unreliable and even scurrilous. He relies too much on rumours and innuendo. One of my detractors claimed I had [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]a 'brainwashed creepy mind' and should study some of the photos Harry has published ... I have! ... And what do I find? ... [/SIZE]Cooper is unreliable when it comes to photos. Here are some glaring examples. If you press on the images below you'll enlarge the photos and see the detail and the proof. Fake Hitler presentation photo On page 61 Cooper publishes a picture of Hitler in Berlin. The dictator is shown congratulating members of the Hitler Youth who have won the Iron Cross for bravery. Hitler met these medal winners in the Reich Chancellery garden on 20th March 1945. The Nazi spy Velasco, whose letters make up much of the book, says a double was substituted for Hitler at the end of WW2. Harry Cooper thinks this photo supports his argument. ‘It is generally accepted,’ claims Cooper, ‘that this is not the real Hitler in this photo shot in the last days of the war. The nose, ears and cheekbones are quite different than the real Hitler.’ This is what he published on page 61 in his book:- Cooper has misinterpreted the photograph. He says, [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]‘It is generally accepted that this is not the real Hitler in this photo...' Really? ... By whom is it 'generally accepted'? Name the people who dispute this fact. Who are they? Cooper provides no evidence to back up his claim. His statement is false. M[/SIZE]ainstream historians regard this photo - or an authentic version of it - as genuine. It shows the real Hitler. How do we know? Because this ceremony was photographed by a movie camera that produced hundreds of images of Hitler from different angles. In addition a stills photographer took many images before and after this shot. All the pictures show the genuine Hitler. This disputed shot, which Cooper reproduces in his book, catches Hitler at an unflattering angle. Cooper mistakes this for another person - a Hitler double. This tiny, badly printed image has also been doctored. A boy’s head has been changed. A bareheaded guy, with glasses and a large shaggy moustache, who looks like Saddam Hussein, has been crudely stuck over the original Hitler Youth who wore a cap. Here's is a close-up of that image Cooper reproduces in his book. Again, click the image to enlarge and see the detail:- And here is proof that Cooper has published a doctored image. If you look at a properly printed unretouched enlargement that contains plenty of detail - Life magazine has a copy - you’ll see this shot fits into the sequence of images taken at the time. The facial details match the other images that all show the authentic Hitler. There’s no double and no mystery. You can find these images all over the Internet. Here is the Life magazine photo:- Here is another authentic photo taken at the time:- Here's a close-up:- Cooper claims 'The nose, ears and cheekbones are quite different than the real Hitler.’ This is wrong as another shot taken from a slightly different angle shows:- And here's another photo of Hitler taken at the time:- Ears are particularly revealing. They are as individual as fingerprints. Have a look at this photo taken from a similar angle. It shows a shaken Hitler and was taken the previous July after the bomb plot assassination attempt. Note the same ear - the same sharp-pointed nose. The facial details match the other images taken in the Reich Chancellery garden which all show the authentic Hitler. There’s no double and no mystery. You can find these images all over the Internet. And here's another right profile photo of Hitler taken in earlier years:- And yet another photo taken in earlier years:- Hit-001E.jpg The only mystery is how the doctored image made its way into the book and why Cooper uses it to bolster a false argument. Who was the Hitler Youth who's cheek Hitler patted - the boy whose head was changed in this book? His name was Wilhelm 'Willi' Hübner, a 16 year-old messenger with the Führer Grenadier Division. He was one of the youngest recipients of the Iron Cross. 'Willi' survived the war and appeared in the 1989 BBC TV documentary The Fatal Attraction of Adolf Hitler. 'Willi' Hübner had no doubt he was meeting the authentic Hitler. And he provides an interesting detail:- “I told Hitler I was a messenger boy for the army. And perhaps that struck a chord with him because he’d been a regimental messenger during the First World War. Anyway, he then patted my cheek and said, “Well done old boy”.’ 'Willi' Hübner is featured on the IMDB database. You can watch the documentary free of charge on YouTube where you see him in later life describing what happened when he met Hitler. And you could buy the DVD on Amazon. 'Willi' Hübner is well-known and information about him easy to find on the Internet if only Cooper would do some proper research. Here's another picture of this intrepid teenager shaking hands with Hitler:- And here is a picture of the adult 'Willi' Hübner talking about his meeting with the dictator when he appeared in the TV documentary The Fatal Attraction of Adolf Hitler:- As I say, you can watch the documentary free of charge on YouTube. Type in title - The Fatal Attraction of Adolf Hitler. The film has been posted in five parts. You can watch the teenager’s encounter with Hitler in Part 5 - about 4mins, 46 seconds in. Why was Hübner's photo changed? Why was the historical record falsified? Who knows? But it's typical of the sloppy way evidence is treated throughout this book. This bogus photo provoked a dissatisfied Amazon customer to remark:- 'If you can obviously cheat over one photo, then your integrity is in doubt.' The only mystery is how the doctored image made its way into the book and why Cooper uses it to bolster a false argument Incidentally, the TV documentary was presented by the Cambridge historian, Professor Christopher Andrew, not some credulous amateur. He had no doubt the pictures taken at the medal ceremony showed the genuine Hitler - not a double. And Anton Joachimsthaler, who wrote the authoritative book THE LAST DAYS OF HITLER - Legend, Evidence and Truth, was equally convinced. He features a photo from the event on the cover and more inside his book as you can see here:- And just to stress the point that 'Willi' was well-known. Here's a picture of the Nazi Propaganda Minister, Dr Joseph Goebbels, shaking hands with the teenager the day before he met Hitler:- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Cooper claims London pensioner is Adolf Hitler Readers hoping for a spate of photos proving Hitler lived in Argentina are in for a disappointment. Only one picture purports to show him in South America. This appears on page 115 and is repeated on the back cover. Even Cooper doubts its authenticity. So why put it in the book? A caption on the back cover says it ‘appears to show Hitler frail and near the end of his life’ … ‘appears to show’? What sort of proof is that? The right ear is the wrong shape - similar to Mr Spock in Star Treck - and too large compared with Hitler’s. A handkerchief obscures half the face so the picture is ambiguous and wide open for speculation - like so much evidence conspiracy theorists would have us believe. There's no provenance. When and where was this photo taken? Who was the photographer? Why should we believe the picture below is Hitler?:- And this is how the picture appears on page 115. Above and below the picture is a description written by the Nazi spy Velasco who claims he might have met a doddering old Hitler in South America. Velasco - an unreliable witness if ever there was one - is quoted extensively in this book. But as you can see Velasco had doubts when he met an elderly man called the 'Fuehrer' in South America. Was he Hitler, or not? Here is that picture on page 115, plus Velasco's words:- Velasco is clearly suspicious about the man’s identity. Indeed, he expresses doubts seven times in his lengthy description of his meeting with this decrepit figure! If Velsaco has that many doubts why should we believe he was Hitler? Where’s the hard evidence? Readers might think the photo is proof. But that picture of the elderly man was not taken by Velasco. It has nothing to do with the Nazi spy. The author, Harry Cooper, just found it lying around on the Internet and shoved it in his book. ... The proof? ... Cooper repeats this photo on the back cover. Note the words beneath the photo:- ttachment=128739:HIT-X-007.jpg] Yes, even Cooper doubts the authenticity of this picture. As I said earlier the caption on the back cover says the photo ‘appears to show Hitler frail and near the end of his life’ … ‘appears to show’? What sort of proof is that? The right ear is the wrong shape - similar to Mr Spock in Star Treck - and too large compared with Hitler’s. A handkerchief obscures half the face so the picture is ambiguous and wide open for speculation - like so much evidence conspiracy theorists would have us believe. Cooper often features this photo on Jeff Rense's conspiracy theory radio programme broadcast from the USA. You can find it in a video on YouTube called Compelling Evidence Hitler Escaped 1/2. Here's a screen shot where the link is made between Hitler and the old man:- That video has provoked a lot of anti-Semitic comments on YouTube including Holocaust denials. Here's another example of a screen capture from YouTube where the old man is featured in an advert for Cooper's book. Taking part in the programme is the controversial conspiracy theorist Jim Marrs who endorses the book. The YouTube video is called Harry Cooper and Jim Marrs - Hitler in Argentina - pt 1:- So where does this photo come from and who does it show? ... You can buy a copy from Getty Images. This is the caption: 'Caption:29th May 1943: An elderly resident of the Bishopswood Home in Highgate, north London, having a rest in an armchair, with his handkerchief shielding his face. Original Publication: Picture Post - 1446 - Aged People And The War - pub. 1943 (Photo by Kurt Hutton/Picture Post/Getty Images).' I've downloaded that image from the Getty website. Note the Getty copyright stamp upon it:- You can check it out on the Getty website at:- http://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/an-elderly-resident-of-the-bishopswood-home-in-highgate-news-photo/3301370 The photo, as you can see from the caption, was taken by Kurt Hutton. He was one of the leading photographers who worked for the famous British Magazine "Picture Post". And here is Cooper ripping off his work and claiming its copyright. In addition, I have an album of Kurt Hutton's photos published by the Focal Press in 1947. It's called Speaking Likeness. And guess what? The same picture appears on page 38. Hutton calls it Forty Winks and published details about how it was taken. 'Forty Winks', he says, 'was caught as I strolled round an old people's home in search of local colour.' He tells us he took the picture with a Leica camera using an 9 cm f4 Elmar lens. The aperture was f.4.5. and the shutter speed 1/8 second. And the picture was taken with a combination of daylight and a photoflood from the ceiling. Here is a picture of the spread in Hutton's book Speaking Likeness on which his photo of the old man appears:- And here is a close-up of that picture on page 38 of Hutton's book. Note the distinctive flowers on the headscarf and the way it is wrapped round the old man's head. Also the folds both left and right. Then there's the white collar sticking out on the right and its shape. Note the pattern in the pocket handkerchief - the way it is hanging out of the breast pocket - and the saw-tooth pattern of the jacket. The man's curiously-shaped ear - like Mr Spock in Star Treck - is clearly visible in this enlargement. Finally note the tapestry-like pattern on the back of the chair in which the man is sitting:- Other captions about the Bishopswood Home inform us that: 'Many of the residents need accommodation because their homes have been bombed or their families scattered.' In other words the old man who Cooper claims is Hitler was a victim of Hitler's bombs during the wartime Blitz on London. He was driven out of his home - made homeless by Hitler's bombing - and had to go and live in this old peoples' home! Cooper discusses this photo with Jeff Rense on his conspiracy theory radio program which you can find on the Internet:- ‘New Book by Harry Cooper: "Hitler In Argentina” - Harry Cooper on Adolf Hitler's Escape from the bunker in Berlin and his life in Argentina from 1945 to 1962. With Jeff Rense, February 21, 2014.’ This was published on YouTube on 23 Feb 2014. You can find the program here:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu_mXmS-3ns The program runs for 1 hour 35 minutes. Although intensely boring, it's worth listening to a few minutes of the worst material where Rense and Cooper make fools of themselves. The introduction is a disgrace. Rense rubbishes the view that Hitler died in 1945. His opinions are ignorant and wrong-headed. There’s an astonishing sequence running for 5 minutes at the end - about 1 hour 30 mins into the program. There Rense urges listeners to buy the book - ‘We want this book all over the world and I think it’s going to go. This is the book. This is the definitive story done with honour and integrity. It tells the truth'. Rense and Cooper gloat - yes, gloat! - about the ‘wonderful’ back cover and the picture of the old man who they think is Hitler. It’s a classic - two conspiracy theorists misinterpreting the photo - defaming an innocent pensioner - and getting everything wrong. Rense talks about the shape of Hitler's nostrils, the shape of the nose, chin, mouth, lips, ear, a scruff of a moustache, a dimple. Perhaps, he suggests, a plastic surgeon has been at work. And look at the eye - ‘There is an ancient echo of fire and passion … It’s a very hypnotic eye…’ Cooper agrees and to cap it all says he believes Eva Braun died In South America just a few years ago. So why does Cooper claim this picture of an old man taken in London in 1943 shows Hitler in Argentina? Why does he feature it in his book and display it in a prominent position on the back cover? Why does he pass it off as his own when he's stolen it from Getty? Cooper's action is even more offensive when you remember the photographer was half Jewish. Hutton fled from the Nazis and came to work in London for a magazine that opposed Hitler. Yet Cooper - by implication - suggests this man, who was partially Jewish and anti-Nazi, photographed Hitler after the war. And he kept silent about it! The photographer told no-one that Hitler was alive and where he could be found. This program and the book are a travesty of history - an obscenity. The photo is being used by Cooper and Rense not only to 'prove' Hitler survived the war. They are also using it to spread an anti-Semitic message. Judging by some of the comments on YouTube and Amazon their campaign is stirring real hatred against the Jews. Here is a screen capture from another of their YouTube videos entitled Harry Cooper - Adolf Hitler's Life in Argentina (1945-1965). The intention of Cooper and his friends is only too clear:- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Front cover photo of Hitler and Eva taken in Germany - not Argentina If the claims Cooper makes for this stolen image are false what about the picture of Hitler and Eva Braun on the front cover? Surely that's genuine? Well, let's take a look:- Yes, it's a genuine photo of Hitler and Eva. But it's used in a deceptive way. A casual browser might think this photo - which is superimposed on top of pictures of a house in Argentina where Hitler was alleged to have lived and a map, plus an aircraft and submarine - was taken in South America. After all that's what the title of the book - HITLER IN ARGENTINA - tells us in bold capitals, plus the words: 'The documented truth of Hitler’s escape from Berlin’. So when and where was this photo taken? It was taken in the Tea House, or Eagle’s Nest, at Obersaltzberg, in Germany. Here is the original:- You can find dozens of copies all over the Internet. The interior of the Tea House, with those huge blocks of stone, is very distinctive. I know. I've been there and photographed the very room - the large reception hall - where this picture was taken. Hitler visited the Eagle's Nest, which is perched on the summit of a mountain, only 14 times. The mountain is one mile high. The thin air made Hitler feel ill and he was worried about lightning strikes and getting stuck in the lift. Those 14 visits took place between September 1938 and October 1940. So the latest this picture could have been taken was 1940. Three more photos of Eva included in the book were all taken in 1930s, or 1940s Germany. No image exists of her in South America. In short, Cooper's book Hitler in Argentina contains no authentic photos of Hitler, Eva Braun, or Bormann taken after the war in Argentina, or anywhere else. Nor do other bogus Hitler escape books such as Grey Wolf - the Escape of Adolf Hitler, or Dr Jerome Corsi's Hunting Hitler. I've written critical one star reviews of these shameful books on Amazon. Conspiracy theorists, who seem incapable of distinguishing fact from fiction, are outraged when I and others dare challenge their sloppy attitude to evidence. But historical memory and truth matter. Pseudo-history does harm. ------------------------------- PS:- If you scroll down further you'll find another Cooper photo examined. Look for the headline:- Did President Eisenhower meet Hitler in Argentina in 1960? Cooper's claims are examined in yet another article - Hitler in Argentina - the Fawlty Towers connection Cooper insists his book is accurate. 'Our book,' he says in his newsletter, 'is absolutely and solidly based on hard facts.' And he repeats this claim. 'Our book is absolutely accurate and fact based.' An examination of the evidence suggests these claims are false. His book is riddled with mistakes and distorts history.
I began looking at this thread, and got three pages into it before I realised that there were seven pages to go. Clicking forward here was the best thing I have done for myself in the last twenty minutes or so. Why do books of this type about Adolf have such a lively lifespan? Gerrard's book seems to have been tagged early on as a load of old cods. When we have Russian records clearly indicating that they found Adolf and eva, when we have testimony from people like Erich Kempka, Heinz Linge, Hana Reitch, and a host of other military people who make no claim other than to agree wholeheartedly with the Russians, then why do people like Gerrard bother at all? It cannot all be about money, surely. Is it some organised plot to resurrect the memory of an evil and manipulative bastard? Or is this designed to portray Gerrard as an investigative journalist of repute? I'm not sure who or what the target audience is. Having read an extract provided by Gerrard, my question is, Where is the tunnel mentioned from the bunker? And why wasn't it used by other top Nazis to escape? Why was Martinn Bormann caught by Russian gunfire under a bridge when an alternative and much safer escape route was available? Hitler adored Bormann and would have told him about the tunnel without batting an eyelid. Instead of rubbernecking in Argentina, why didn't gerrard spend some 'Project' dollars far more efficiently and give us a geo-physical survey of the site to clearly establish whether this legendary tunnel exists or not? I suppose when you are just a journalist, rather than an historian, you don't feel as if you have to prove anything. Just shovel this drivel at your audience and expect them to mop it all up by some form of osmosis, or a willing suspension of disbelief, as a lot of journalists do. In short, this thread was dead 9 pages ago, and I grew my beard several millimetres wasting my time and contributing to my chronic myopia just sampling the first three pages. Final Rating: Rex Reed once said that the final arbiter of decision in his role as a theater critic was if his arse had gone to sleep during the performance. I can say catagorically that my arse went to sleep reading only three pages of this thread, so the likelyhood of it lasting through the entire 430 odd pages of "Greywolf..." is very small. I'm sure there are Argentinan supporters of the late Juan and Eva Peron who are interested in this book. I'm sure not, and neither should you be!
Indeed as the good old WW2Talk forum continues a pace , a thread rarely dies,you always find a contributor turns up with another take on events or a comment to make.
I honestly doubt it was about anything other than the money; let's face it - two thirds of the book wasn't even written by him, but by Simon Dunstan! He wouldn't have had to take that much time out of his otherwise-busy schedule... What - and destroy Abel Basti's....I mean, his own...hypothesis right at the very start? There's a long tradition of journalists suspending their disbelief...or being rather more active in the misleading...when it comes to military or WWII history - such as Leo McKinstry - or the editors/journalists involved in the Hitler's Diary farce.
How did you get hold of a picture of my back yard??? P.s.... ...why has someone superimposed a pic of Saddam Hussein in there? :biggrin:
Alas Drusus, since Grey Wolf was published a number of other Hitler and Bormann survival myth books have appeared. As I said earlier I've reviewed some of them on Amazon. All of them fail to provide any evidence that Hitler and his pals lived elsewhere. There are no photos, documents, artifacts, DNA, details of how when and where they died and if they were buried, or cremated etc. Just unsubstantiated rumours and anecdotes that conspiracy theorists misinterpret as facts. As Damian Thompson put in his book Counterknowledge ... The CTs are 'people who share a muddled, careless or deceitful attitude towards gathering evidence ... a casual approach to the truth...'. They all seem hostile to genuine expertise. A scholar who has spent a lifetime studying a subject and has incomparable knowledge is dismisssed out of hand and falsely accused of being naive, in hock to a government, or in someway corrupt. And judging by the customers who give these books four and five stars on Amazon the gullible are taken in.
