Hill 60 and 2 Royal Scots Fusiliers 1940

Discussion in '1940' started by soren1941, Jun 11, 2009.

  1. soren1941

    soren1941 Living in Ypres

    Hi Chaps & Chapettes,

    Whilst reading Wikipedia ( of course every word can be believed ) I noticed this:

    '1940

    Hill 60 was also the site of a desperate battle between the Germans and A company of the 2nd Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers in May 1940. The memorial plate to the Australian miners bears the scars of this battle.'

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hill_60_(Western_Front)

    Any nore info?
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

  3. soren1941

    soren1941 Living in Ypres

    Cheers matey
     
  4. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Andy, Soren was asking for info on the Hill in WW2 not WW1. There is probably more information in Soren's post than on the page you've linked to. By all means put some links in and answer people's questions, but there is no point in putting random stuff in, surely?
     
  5. soren1941

    soren1941 Living in Ypres

    [​IMG]

    Hill 60 in the 1930's courtesy of the site Drew pointed out, what I'd give to wander around that trench so soon after the war!!
     
  6. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    The trench is a fake, dug by veterans.

    It's possible it wasn't there in 1940, but Dave (Croonaert) is your man for this.
     
  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    You got me thinking now.....I wonder if the did post WW1 battlefield tours before 1939?
     
  8. soren1941

    soren1941 Living in Ypres

    Geez appearances can be deceiving, I no longer wish to walk around it.
     
  9. CROONAERT

    CROONAERT Ipsissimus

    Not so much a "desperate battle" actually on the hill, Soren...more a case of "A"Coy getting blasted of it by mortar , artillery and MG fire.

    There was a desperate action that took place at the nearby crossroads, however, as Lt.Cholmondeley's fighting patrol (basically sent out to buy time and cover the withdrawal back across the railway line and thence on to the canal line) took out the German MG post and assaulted the mortar positions before withdrawing (a fighting retreat) themselves. It certainly bought time as the Germans believed that they were under attack from a far larger group than they actually were and held back a little.

    dave.
     

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  10. CROONAERT

    CROONAERT Ipsissimus

    Forgot that that's just a small section of a larger map... 2/RSF is in yellow. Red is the 6/Seaforths positions
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Andy, Soren was asking for info on the Hill in WW2 not WW1. There is probably more information in Soren's post than on the page you've linked to. By all means put some links in and answer people's questions, but there is no point in putting random stuff in, surely?


    I put it on mainly for the photo of the memorial that had been shot by the Germans during WW2 which Soren mentioned.
     
  12. soren1941

    soren1941 Living in Ypres

    So I suppose having fake trenches it was an early form of tourist trap?
     
  13. CROONAERT

    CROONAERT Ipsissimus

    Lt.Cholmondeley's fighting patrol


    if anyone was ever deserving of a VC,in my opinion, it was certainly this man. Unfortunately, he didn't survive his action...
     

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  14. CROONAERT

    CROONAERT Ipsissimus

    Whilst reading Wikipedia ( of course every word can be believed ) I noticed this:

    '1940

    Hill 60 was also the site of a desperate battle between the Germans and A company of the 2nd Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers in May 1940. The memorial plate to the Australian miners bears the scars of this battle.'

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hill_60_(Western_Front




    the Wikipedia entry has recently been slightly edited with more information for you, I notice.

    ...now, I wonder who might have gone and done something like that???:rolleyes:
     
  15. skimmod

    skimmod Senior Member

    Not so much a "desperate battle" actually on the hill, Soren...more a case of "A"Coy getting blasted of it by mortar , artillery and MG fire.

    There was a desperate action that took place at the nearby crossroads, however, as Lt.Cholmondeley's fighting patrol (basically sent out to buy time and cover the withdrawal back across the railway line and thence on to the canal line) took out the German MG post and assaulted the mortar positions before withdrawing (a fighting retreat) themselves. It certainly bought time as the Germans believed that they were under attack from a far larger group than they actually were and held back a little.

    dave.

    Hi there, I'd love to pool resources on this one and find out where you have your references from. I am investigating several reports written by a Dutch Belgian (who buried the dead after the battle) & a Frenchman who owned the Chateau (where they made their last stand) and interviews with the Germans who fought there. My starting points for the battle put A company between the Cafe "Red Kaus" which is back on the [FONT=&quot]"Komensesteenweg[/FONT]" road, up to the railway bridge, with one platoon across the railway line on the hill and one back covering the gap between the hill and the [FONT=&quot]Vierlingen[/FONT] wood. It also says the attack was led by both [FONT=&quot]Maitland-Makgill-Crichton[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]& [FONT=&quot]Cholmondely[/FONT].

    My Grandfather was part of the 2RSF and was captured during the fighting there.

    The questions I have at the moment are:

    the physical make up of the Bn. I have started putting together a structure document but have made little headway in that the original documents have been destroyed.

    The make up of this "Fighting Patrol" as both B and C companies were already engaged along the line of the railway all the way as far as the "entrepot" and D company was held in reserve and not used. Who provided the patrol? Was it the HQ platoon in A company, or another element of HQ Coy?

    Any information is always well recieved!

    all the best

    Iain
     
  16. soren1941

    soren1941 Living in Ypres

    if anyone was ever deserving of a VC,in my opinion, it was certainly this man. Unfortunately, he didn't survive his action...

    What is his story?
     
  17. skimmod

    skimmod Senior Member

    I have more answers from a local Dutch source that lists both Lt.s as being from A company. Andy also the fact that A company pretty much ceased to exist afterwards. Most were captured in and around the Rode Kaus as they tried to fall back from hill 60.

    I have a fantastic account of one of the last people to retreat from the railway to the canal. Even though the Germans are all around a Bren gun carrier, zig zags at full speed down the track towards the ford over the canal, makes it past startled Germans and down the steep bank to the canal. but as it is coming up the steep bank on the other side the open top gives the germans a clear view inside and they rake it with machine gun fire and it flips over and catches alight. The crew are dragged clear by the guys dug in at the Bois du Cran. (a small woods above the ford)
     
  18. CROONAERT

    CROONAERT Ipsissimus

    Hi there, I'd love to pool resources on this one and find out where you have your references from.

    The reconstructed (june 1940) battalion war diary (and those of the surrounding units), regimental histories (which may be based on the diaries anyway) and several personal accounts (British and German).

    ...lists both Lt.s as being from A company.

    This is confirmed in the diary for Cholmondeley (who is stated as being the commander of the fighting patrol)

    ...........

    If you want to contact me (bearing in mind that this particular action is only a small part of the study that I'm conducting), drop me a PM.

    Best wishes,

    dave.
     
  19. skimmod

    skimmod Senior Member

    Just thought I'd top and tail this thread. Dave has come up with some stunning bits of info that have really helped me in my quest.
    I hope he's pleased with what scraps I could throw his way too!

    I've just joined a forum that has a group up there of some of the locals that meet every year to remember the battle. Fingers crossed for a reply as they would be able to confirm a few facts. (although my French might not be good enough to get the best out of it!)

    thanks all, cracking forum!

    Iain
     
  20. CROONAERT

    CROONAERT Ipsissimus

    I hope he's pleased with what scraps I could throw his way too!


    I certainly was Iain!:biggrin: (even though we may have slightly muddied each others waters as regards one particular event!:lol:.... it all adds to the "real" story coming out though!)

    Thanks again,

    dave.
     

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