Hermanville sur Mer (Sword Beach) picture, mid-1930s

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by tmac, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    Danny,

    I have looked carefully at such photos as I have, and looked at the sources.

    A mosaic taken before D day.
    A fairly clear panoramic mosaic from sortie 7/1734 on D day.
    An oblique taken from seaward on D day with Colleville plage obscured by low cloud.
    What I took to be an oblique but I see is a still showing the B26.

    The last two do have the same craft in the same positions at Colleville but they are presumably beached, broached, stranded or damaged and were there for some time.

    Mike.
     
  2. Arty

    Arty Member

    Danny
    Regards the air attack footage from Critical Past, first of all, how the flippin’ hell did you find it? And secondly, it’s a superb find! I’ve spent a bit of time looking at the video and a number of the stills. The attack depicted is apparently the first of three bombing raids on the battery at Colleville Sur Orne i.e. 2./1716 located at WN16 aka “Morris”. This battery was the closest of all to Hermanville La Breche it’s four Czech howitzers (10cm le FH 14/19(t)) able to cover all of Queen Red beach.

    An aerial photograph taken on 30May44 shows both “Morris” and the nearby “Hillman” were then intact. The footage was likely shot on the evening of 01Jun44 when the US IX Bomber Command made a visit. The aircraft so clearly identified in the film, RJ-W serial 131951, is a B26B of 454th Bomb Squadron, 323rd Bomb Group, 98th Combat Wing.

    The largest concentration of bombs is straddling the eastern edge of the battery position, some bombs are falling in Colleville itself, whilst a smaller concentration is falling to the south - between “Morris” and “Hillman”. Although none of the batteries howitzers were taken out by this or the subsequent attacks the morale of the gunners was clearly affected, when five days later they surrendered to B Coy 1st Bn Suffolks.

    The unmolested defenders of “Hillman” were however open for business….
     
  3. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hello Mike,
    Thanks very much for that information. I still have a couple of others to find then.

    You are right about the stranded landing craft. The remnants of two or three were still there in 1947.

    Below are a couple of shots of Commandos going through Colonie de Colleville sur Orne area.

    Arty, thanks very much for all of the information on the bombing raids. I found the footage after someone else posted a screen grab on the web some time ago. All I had to do was track down the footage after seeing the film number in the corner.

    Regards

    Danny

    french 7.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Yes, the beautiful postcard posted by Tmac is indeed showing the same villas as those on either side of Borjeno's great photo.
    [Edit 2 Oct 2015:] - Borjeno (now Iri)'s photo has disappeared, so I'm posting another print of the same photo from the RUR Museum, Belfast:
    [​IMG]

    The villa on the left of the photo (postcard=third from left) was named "Les Marmousets" (free translation: "The Munchkins"), and was owned by a Dr Guiot until 1922 at least. Here's a view at about the same angle as in the photo:
    [​IMG]

    Another view of the same villa:
    [​IMG]

    Yet another postcard, from the same photo as the one above but cropped slightly differently:
    [​IMG]

    Showing the back of "Les Marmousets":
    [​IMG]

    Then, a symmetric view to that in Tmac's postcard:
    [​IMG]

    As Trux says, the large villa burning on the right of Borjeno's photo (fourth from left on Tmac's postcard) is "La Brèche". Here's a view at a similar angle as on the photo:
    [​IMG]

    Here are two aerial views of the area, one pre-war, the other post-war, on which I've added the names of some of the villas:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The Lion-Hermanville website is great as it has many unique postcards and it identifies the location of each, and as you can see from the above postcards there is another fantastic website with thousands of postcards of literally everywhere. Here's the link to Hermanville alone:

    Hermanville - Delcampe.net

    Michel
     
    dbf likes this.
  5. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    Thank you very much Michel.

    This thread is becoming a most valuable resource. The area was certainly photogenic. I suppose it is possible to build up similar pictures of other beaches from postcards. I read that in the last decade of the 19th Century Kodak introduced a new system specifically for making small numbers of postcards from photo negatives. It was then possible for a local photographer to make 20 to 50 prints and have them on sale almost immediately. Probably not very good quality and not very stable but still interesting and useful.

    Mike
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Very interesting thread this.
    Has anyone got a photo of the art nouveau villa La Bluette taken in 1944 ?
    La Villa La Bluette

    I was just wondering what condition it was in on D-Day .
     
  7. Precisely, Mike!

    In a tiny village near my ancestors' place in the centre of France there were some postcards on display at the grocer's, showing the local points of interest (!) such as the railway station or rather railway stop, the church, the stream, the fountain...

    I questioned the shop owner about them about she said she had just found a small stock of these postcards in her attic. Apparently these were ordered by her father some time early in the XXth century and she only just discovered them.

    They were in pristine condition and she had decided to offer them for sale. Needless to say I bought the complete series, all 7 of them!

    By the way, the link to the lion-hermanville postcards website you provided does not work. It doesn't matter as the URL is written on the postcards, but for those who are too lazy to type it here's the link:

    Cartes Postales Anciennes de Lion-sur-Mer et Hermanville

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  8. I couldn't find any clear shot of La Bluette in 1944, but considering that only villa Jenny was destroyed during the landings, and that all other neighbouring villas survived to this day, it probably did not suffer much.

    Here's a recent oblique aerial of the area on which I added the names of the villas for reference:
    Villas de la petite Breche a La Breche - Hermanville - 8980.jpg

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
    Juha and Owen like this.
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    OK thanks for reply Michel.
    Interesting thread this.
    Love all the photos.
    Cheers.
     
  10. Hello tmac,

    Like Mike, I couldn't find pre-war postcards of the area you describe either, but I found some footage on Critical Past that shows LCT 1023 broached to on the beach opposite Strongpoint COD, quite a bit further West of the spot you mention, starting here:
    Critical Past Clip 65675072013 Frame 182

    Here's the link to the clip itself:
    Stock Footage - Allied troops pour onto Normandy beaches and German Generals Rommel and Rundstedt inspect coastal fortifications in France.

    I've stitched the relevant stills together. The roof of one of the "Twin Villas" is visible above the bunker on the right, with the double embrasure 5 cm bunker just to its left:
    CP65675072013_003933-4071.jpg

    It's the same location as on IWM photo B5180, and LCT 1023 is also there, in the same position:
    B_005180.jpg

    The bunker on the right is the most westerly of COD bunkers, just right of Exit 18. This photo is often miscaptioned as showing the 7,5 cm bunker at ROGER Exit 1 (first exit East of QUEEN Exit 26) shown on Da
    nny's colour aerial view, and also here:
    Critical Past Clip 65675072013 Frame 182

    Since LCT 1023 is mentioned is your (great) post (http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/royal-...-92nd-loyals-laa-regiment-ra-1940-1946-a.html) and website as having landed - and having been badly damaged - just starboard (West) of this second LCT 627 (405) carrying the other half-troop, logically LCT 627 should also have beached opposite COD. Otherwise this would mean that LCT 1023 had drifted quite some distance (roughly 700 yards) West, which is highly unlikely as the winds were northwesterly. See:
    ECMWF Reanalysis and Forecasts of D-Day Weather

    "(...) June 6. The Met Office’s first synoptic report from Normandy, from Sword Beach at 1300UTC, was of mainly sunny weather and a northwesterly wind at Force 4."

    or that it had moved there some way or the other.

    One possible explanation would be that the veterans might have confused the location of their landing because the beach had changed quite a lot since D-Day: sadly all COD bunkers have been demolished. There remains only the bunker at ROGER Exit 1. The veterans may have confused that bunker for the double embrasure one in the middle of COD, which they would also have seen on their left when landing. See here:
    Critical Past Clip 65675072013 Frame 179

    Or did the veterans have other ways by which they recognized their landing spot? In that case we will have to find how LCT 1023 got where it was when the attached clip and photo were shot.

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
    dbf likes this.
  11. tmac

    tmac Senior Member

    Dear Michel,

    Thanks for that most interesting information. I'll do some checking and let you know what I find.

    Best wishes,

    Tom
     
  12. Arty

    Arty Member

    Michel

    Superb work! I’m attaching the next photo from the IWM sequence and a pre war comparison (that I’ve taken the liberty to ‘photo shop’). The devastated building pictured is Villa Beausejour between roads 13 & 14 on Queen White. Notwithstanding the huge volume of fire directed at the coastal strip prior to H-Hour the damage suffered by this building is particularly heavy. It might just have been a ‘victim’ of one of 440 Sqn RCAF Typhoons - the same aircraft that almost took out LCT4 Ltin111 landing 77 Sqn RE - but that’s just pure conjecture….
     
    And huge thanks for giving the masses a photographic comparison of the 7.5cm bunker at COD at the junction of Queen Red/White (ie. Wiederstandnest WN20) and the 7.5cm bunker at SKATE on Roger Green (ie. Wiederstandnest WN18). It amazes me that ‘88’ mythology continues to this day - despite the war diaries, reports & memoirs the direct fire weapons that did most of the damage on the day were all 75‘s. Mind you, I'm yet to see a photo of the 75 emplacement that was apparently on Queen Green…

    IWM B5181 - Queen White 07Jun44 Villa Beausejour - between rds 13 & 14..jpg

    Queen White pre war 3 Villa Beausejour  - between roads 13 & 14 view looking east.jpg

    Arty
     
    dbf likes this.
  13. Driver-op

    Driver-op WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    I somehow missed this interesting item started by Tom. But as I was on LCT 627 (405) I remember the landing reasonably well, mainly because my wireless truck broke down soon after we got on the beach. There was a small sea wall with few if any houses behind it, our dead were laying against the wall mosty covered by gas capes - there were also corpses in the sea. When we got going again, having been left behind, we travelled east; the sea wall gone, now sand dunes. The truck in front got a shell in the cab as it was leaving the taped exit. During the delay I saw a Junkers drop a stick of bombs on what I believed to the beached landing craft. Behind the dunes was a lateral road, off which, opposite the exit was a lane that headed in land. On our tod we took this and I saw infantry advancing further east, not very clearly. The verge on the west side of the lane carried the dead of both our lads and and Germans- I was thinking of shooting a German officer when I realised he was already dead. We eventually met up with the rest of the troop in Coleville. That lane now is a main road with Monty's statue.
    Does this help in locating 627's landing position?
    Jim
     
    dbf likes this.
  14. Jim,

    Thank you so much for your account. Yes, it does help a lot!

    From your description, the exit off the beach that you used is indeed Exit 26.

    Before that, you had travelled East from the landing point, first along a small sea wall then sand dunes.

    This is totally consistent with the location of LCT 1023, opposite Exit 18, and means that LCT 627, which was to port of LCT 1023, probably landed roughly opposite the Twin Villas, or between the 5cm bunker and the Twin Villas.

    I know that notions of time or distance must be extremely difficult to estimate during such an event, but what would be your best guess for the distance you travelled East, between the landing location and reaching the exit off the beach?

    Can you remember seeing any bunker either during the landing itself or thereafter?

    I attach Danny's aerial photo with your likely landing spot and subsequent motoring along the beach to the exit.

    Here are a couple of posts from an old thread showing the same general area in front of Strongpoint COD where you probably landed:

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/royal-engineers/41681-1050-port-maintenence-re-d-day-beyond-3.html#post478426

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/royal-engineers/41681-1050-port-maintenence-re-d-day-beyond-2.html#post476727

    For clarity's sake I attach the 2 photos mentioned in those 2 posts, initially posted by Stuart on the first page of the thread, plus 2 photos shot on D-Day.

    During the delay I saw a Junkers drop a stick of bombs on what I believed to the beached landing craft.
    Jim

    I've read about this attack in several other accounts, including by some of the Breaching RE if I remember correctly. I'll try and dig them out.

    Many thanks again Jim!

    Michel
     

    Attached Files:

  15. tmac

    tmac Senior Member

    Thanks, Jim and Michel for your excellent contributions. I must confess the confusion over the LCT 627 landing place is entirely my fault.

    During our 2008 visit to Normandy, Jim and his comrade George Baker showed me the road where they had exited the beach - heading into Colleville - and I assumed the LCT had landed directly opposite that road.

    But I can see now that this was not the case and that Michel's account identifies the correct landing place further west. So please accept my apologies.

    I'm very grateful to have the situation clarified and I'll incorporate the fresh information into my account of 92nd LAA as soon as I can.

    Jim will recall how we'd earlier shared a tot of rum on the seafront at La Breche to commemorate the landings. Maybe that accounts for my confusion!
     
  16. Arty

    Arty Member

    Chaps,

    Some more input regards LCT1023 follows…

    Firstly the footage from which Michel created a superb collage of stills incorporating COD’s 7.5cm bunker on the right, with LCT1023 wallowing in the shallows on the left, was probably not taken on 06June. The reasons are the position of the sun and the tide, and the fact that the Engineers have completed the beach lateral road. If you look closely at the short shadows cast by the men & equipment in the foreground the sun appears to be coming from high and to the South-East ie. it’s before midday. On 06June there were two high tides - the first peaked around 1050hrs. However LCT1023 apparently didn’t land until around 1430hrs, when the tide was receding. The second high tide peaked around 2300hrs. However from the position of the sun it’s clearly not late evening. My conclusion, the footage was taken around 11hrs on 07June (as were the IWM stills B5180 & B5181).

    Meanwhile in the magnificent (but largely misunderstood) aerial photo taken around 1630hrs on 06June (the B26’s tail fin is, in effect, a sundial) we can see a plethora of beached landing craft - some destroyed, but most just stranded by the falling tide. On a higher resolution image it is possible to determine with some confidence the craft types - there are apparently 17 LCT4’s, 5 LCI(L)’s, 2 LCI(S)’s & 2 LCT(A)’s in the shot. Regards LCT1023 there are NO LCT4’s to the east of COD. Indeed there is an LCT4 sitting in almost the same position LCT1023 would be filmed in the next day, almost…

    At the eastern end of COD was yet another large bunker - albeit armed with a comparatively small gun (variously described as a 3.7cm or 4.7 cm). From the sea, COD’s bunkers would have no doubt looked alike - huge concrete boxes partially covered in sand. From the aerial photograph LCT1023 is sitting stranded just east of COD’s 5.0cm Bunker. Either way this craft landed adjacent one of COD’s bunkers on 06June & not near the only close-by bunker that still exists today, some 700 yards to the east.

    Additionally, I’m posting two more photos from the IWM, B5191 & B5192, which link in nicely with Michel's last photograph. Both photos were apparently taken by Sgt Mapham on 07June. B5192, depicting Crab Tac sign 2H, has been wrongly captioned as being on Queen White - it is in fact on Queen Red on the beach between the Twin Villas and the 5.0cm bunker - in the distance we can see Queen White. And in B5191 we have three lads from the Beach Group - over their left shoulders we can just see Crab 2H - on the right is LCT1023 and the probable remains of 2 Troop, 79 Sqn RE.


    Arty
     

    Attached Files:

  17. tmac

    tmac Senior Member

    This is the log of LCT 627 for the D-Day period, supplied courtesy of First Lieutenant Arthur Walters.

    At 1500 hours on June 6, the log reports LCT 1023 'hit and destroyed on beach'. But Arthur learned later that LCT 1023 had in fact been salvaged.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Driver-op

    Driver-op WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Michel, I have no recollection of seeing a bunker, and no real idea how far we (Jack Taylor, driving and me operator) drove before the taped exit across the dunes. The lane we went up had a high hedge on the right hand side -west-, and a grass verge; that's where the dead lay (still makes me feel sad). The German officer sitting up with binos round his neck was in a defensive trench on the right, behind him the other defenders were also dead. The left side of the lane had a sparse hedge and I could see across to the troops advancing inland across Riva Bella. We saw nobody alive until we passed a Duplex Tank and a group of officers just before Colleville.
    Sorry I can't be of much help. You are quite right my mind was occupied with other things at the time so may well have missed a lot.
    Jim
     
    dbf likes this.
  19. Good spotting LCT 1023 on B5191 Arty! I had noticed the 2 Tp wreckage but had not related it to LCT 1023.

    B5191 is really an outstanding photo because it ties in snugly with the narratives by 2Tp 79 Aslt Sqn RE. We can see Sgt Bartley's burnt out Log Carpet AVRE still with its wading trunks, as well as the remains of the SBG bridge and the Bobbin Carpet, at the feet of the three Beach Group guys, and the drowned D7 Armoured Bulldozer, probably the one attached to 1Tp, which was "lost by a direct hit in engine" and "drowned out".

    I wasn't sure of the exact location until you ID'd LCT 1023 and Cpl Agnew's Crab No.94 (2H). Brilliant!

    As for COD's Easternmost bunker, this would deserve a full thread of its own!
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  20. Bobby32

    Bobby32 Junior Member

    I am new to the site and this is the first time I have posted. Forgive me if I am posting information you already have. I have a copy of the excellent book "D-Day The Lost Evidence" published through the History Channel. It has aerial photographs of the beaches taken on D-Day. Perhaps you have already seen these through IWM. I also have copies of "Old D-Day Maps" published by Alan Godfrey Maps. My late father landed on Sword Beach mid morning on D-Day so it has always had an intense fascination for my older brother and I. Hope the book and map information helps somebody in some way.
     

Share This Page