Help with tombs of unknown airmen in Netherlands may be my grandfather

This shows how difficult it is to identify these "Unknowns".

This is at the Hague Westduin Cemetery.

Early in the war, Sergeant, Date, RAAF, A limited number of RAAF Sergeant deaths listed on Runnymede around this date....................

 

Kevin

you will not find the agents as these would have been Dutch agents so will not be listed by CWGC

Chris

But sometimes they are buried in a Commonwealth grave, as you can see on this photo.




This shows how difficult it is to identify these "Unknowns".

This is at the Hague Westduin Cemetery.

Early in the war, Sergeant, Date, RAAF, A limited number of RAAF Sergeant deaths listed on Runnymede around this date....................

View attachment 66643

Geoff, I have got the burial registers from the Westduin Cemetery. If you would like, I could check for you what else is known about this grave. Place were the body was found for example.

 

Eddie,
I'm new to this forum and the first thing I did was a search on Haamstede, the place I live, and found 3 records and one was related to your grandfather.
As a member of a foundation Wings to Victory we have a database operational with 600 plus crashes in the south-west part of Holland called Zeeland.
The LL343 is included in the database and is accessible.
http://www.wingstovictory.nl/database//index.phphe
The first screen shows a number of selection items; select zoeken (dutch for search) and enter.
Next screen enter LL343 and push enter and you will get the detail line.
Cursor to datum (date) and push enter and you will get details.
All pdf's have detail info.
As most of the info is in dutch and you need some english translation let me know.

Leo Bakker

Hello Leo,
Thanks for your post. I am the grandson of the pilot of LL343. Eddie and I have been in touch for a couple of years now and every once in a while renewed intrest in various posts keeps the search going.
I understand that the local police archives sometimes contain very detailed witness reports about the bodies that washed up on the shores. I was wondering if Wings of Victory had looked at these at all or if that was within the mandate. If the records are available I think it could shed light on those buried at the Haamstede airfield before being moved after the war.
Any information on the avialability of the records would be appreciated.
Best Regards
Jeff Brown

 

I can look to see what the cargo was for the mission if that would help - I would imagine containers and packages

 

Thanks Jedburgh22. I am interested to learn what I can about the circumstances of LL343's crash and the possibility that bodies that washed up on the dutch coast within a week or so of the crash could have been members of the crew.

I have also been trying to cross reference records I have found online from the PRO to put together a more complete record of my grand father's missions. If you have any digital records or suggestions of records to search through I would welcome your input. I would be pleased to share what I have as well.

Best Regards
Jeff Brown

 

But sometimes they are buried in a Commonwealth grave, as you can see on this photo.






Geoff, I have got the burial registers from the Westduin Cemetery. If you would like, I could check for you what else is known about this grave. Place were the body was found for example.

Hi Pieter,

That would be welcome. May be a little more there to pass on to the RAAF MIA section.

Cheers

Geoff

 

I will have a look Geoff. If I find anything, I will e-mail it to you.

 

I have more information from the Raid Report of W/O Smith who reported the following:

5138N-0324E- 0200 Hrs. 600'. Est. position 5136N-0329E in sea - Aircraft seen shotdown in flames into sea (burnt on top of water for 5 minutes) by L/F red and green tracer. Some flares shot up from same position afterwards.

From the german record has been summarized as follows:
That night two British a/c were lost due to action of the socalled VP-Flottilla Windhuk (VP2007, VP2011, VP2004 and M3234) which guarded the entrances to the Scheldt rivers at position AN8762.

RM72-217 reports as follows:
At 01.58 the Cdt of VP2007 reports that an enemy a/c flew in a direct line over his vessel at a height of approx. 200 metres. The order to open fire is immediately given and the foremost 2 cm gun (gunner Mtr.ObGefr. Baumann) was able to fire 8-10 rounds which all struck home. The a/c caught fire and crashed into the sea at approx. 2000 metres distance from the flottilla.

After the fires extinquished themselves the area was searched for both survivors and information till 06.05 hours. Then they had to abandon the operation in order to be in port before the RAF showed up again.

The kill was confirmed by both Schützenkönig (Strongpoint) and Westkapelle (Coastalbattery) which reported that an e/a was shot down by the boats on station.

The 4 ships had used 11 x 8,8 cm, 22 x 3,7 cm, 327 x 2 cm, 112 x 1,5 cm and 68 x LMG.



Assuming that W/O Smith - who was known to be flying the same route - saw LL343 I have a few questions for those who know about the Halifax V and the position of the crew members.

• If the plane was on the water for 5 minutes it seems reasonable to assume that the plane ditched with an attidute that allowed it to hit with a flare to keep the nose up. In a crash of that nature Based on locations of crew who is likely to have had a chance to escape and send up a flare?
• Was there a drill for ditching for the crew other than the pilot's efforts to give the crew a chance to survive? Is it likely that everyone have been belted into their seats?

All of this leads to an exercise of speculation but I thought the knowledge and expertise of the larger group might lend an informed path of logic to the guessing. My reason for pursuing this is to follow up on the later reports of two bodies washing up on the shoreline on 5 September 1944 two bodies washed ashore at resp. Schelphoek and Westenschouwen. They were believed to be Canadian airmen. One day later a third body washed ashore at Zierikzee and all three were buried at the Haamstede cemetery on 8 September. These men could be/ might have been part of the lost crew but that it was not more than a possibility and that it simply can't be excluded as such.

Some enquiries have been made to CWWGC and they feel the record does not support possibility that the above mentioned bodies are crew from LL343. I still think that the local police reports are worth investigating as some are quite detailed.


The details on the other aircraft that I am aware of are as follows:

LR382 FBVI 21 Missing from night Intruder mission 31.8.44
Name: PINK, VICTOR JUAN EMANUEL
Initials: V J E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Pilot Officer
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 21 Sqdn.
Age: 19
Date of Death: 31/08/1944
Service No: 183416
Additional information: Son of Thomas Percy Charles and Violet Emily Pink; husband of Elizabeth Mary Pink, of Thrapston, Northamptonshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 212.
Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

Name: MERRY, HERBERT CECIL BELL
Initials: H C B
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Pilot Officer
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 21 Sqdn.
Age: 22
Date of Death: 31/08/1944
Service No: 183391
Additional information: Son of Kenneth Walter and Mary Isobel Merry, of Belfast, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 212.
Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

Hoping that revisiting this could help to further narrow the possibilites for the families.

Jeff

 

My mother's cousin, Cecil Merry was the pilot of the Mosquito shot down on that night. He was initially listed as MIA.

The family knew very little at the time about what had happened and my grandmother and Cecil's mother held out hope that he would be in a POW camp but when he didn't show up after the war hope faded. I don't think they even knew he was shot down over the sea.

The squadron records of that night say "Tonight the squadron covered bridges over the Somme between Abbeville and Amiens. Considerable Ack Ack was experienced. W/O Merry and F/Sgt Pink failed to return. F/O Seage force landed at B.17 in France".

What is interesting to me is how he was shot down over the Netherlands when the squadron was operating in the Somme. Based on the south coast of England you would expect to fly out/home over the Allied controlled bay of Biscay/Channel rather than German occupied Netherlands.

I know that Mosquitos often flew special missions in smaller groups, so is there a chance Merry & Pink had a different objective than night? Did they fly in support of bombers such as your Halifax?

I think I read that your grandfather was Canadian? Co-incidentally Cecil Merry trained near Swift Current, Saskatchewan before the war (he was in the ATC) and my family have strong links with Canada with relatives from my mother's side emigrating after the war. I have relatives in BC, Alberta, Ontario and Quebec.

 

Welcome to the forum,
I understand from my reading that as on many nights that summer there was weather to the south. Bad enough to cause a number of sorties to be cancelled. I would speculate that left fewer options for getting home.
The missions of LL343 were supply and sometimes personnel drops behind enemy lines. these were not typically escorted. I haven't looked into the mission of Merry & Pink. Perhaps some of the Senior members could provide some light or direction on finding out more. The National Archives has been releasing logs and other records digitally. If you spend some time with their search tool you may identify some useful information.
Alot of British and Commonwealth airmen trained in Canada. It was another way for us to contribute to the war effort.
As we progress in our reseach we may assist each other in piecing together the mystery.
Keep in touch. I will pass on anything relevant that I find.
Regards
Jeff

 

Hi Jeff
I've downloaded more info from the National Archives - 21 Squadron was certainly concentrating on German-occupied France in August '44 in support of Operation Overlord. Cecil Merry flew 17 missions in August '44 (including the night he was shot down). They were over the Somme on the night they were shot down, between Amiens and Abbeville. It would be a short flight north-east before turning west to head for home which is where they were shot down at the mouth of the Scheldt river.
The rest of the squadron were out for between 2hrs - 2hrs15mins that night and seemed to come back to their home base of RAF Thorney, W.Sussex. At 300mph and subtracting a short time over target this was still enough time to get from the south of England and back via the Netherlands.

Regards
Patrick