Having just spent a few days in TNA, i'm dissapointed to find that I managed to miss a crucial aspect of my research: information on 138 Field Regiment group in africa 1942. Now I've never researched artillery before, and am now having some trouble finding it in the NA record from my home computers, so I was wondering if anyone had any advice for me regarding researching artillery so I'll know before I next get down to Kew (god knows when)... particularaly where I can find the information and, more importantly what I can expect in the records. I recently checked out an intelligence (radio intercept file) in Kew, only to find that the entire diary wasn't about their exploits, just what they had for lunch.
Phaethon I think you take pot luck with every single war dairy you pull. Some are great on information, some you wonder why they even bothered. Some are typed and crytal clear to read and some are written in the most dreadful handwriting in the faintest pencil. A slight variation on that well known quote from Forrest Gump. War Diaries are a like a box of chocolates, you never know what you gonna get.
War Diary reference for 138 Field Regt in North Africa is WO175/338. It covers Oct 42 to June 43. Checked to see if there were any Battery Diaries and there are not. Another aspect I find annoying about RA War Diaries. Why did some produce Battery diaries as well as the main regt diary. I know that in quite a number of cases, the Batteries were put under command somewhere else, but I've found more information when there are Battery Diaries as well.
Ramcal; thanks a lot. A well earned rep point goes to you there. This is exactly what I was talking about, I'd searched for this this morning and found absolutely nothing... and someone with a bit of experience finds it in a jiffy. So my sincere thanks for that. Do you or anyone else know what sort of thing is in the divisional R.A diaries... (I believe that's royal artillery?). So battery diaries for when a battery is removed from the main regimental body by any chance, or are there any other files I should be looking for? I've got my fingers crossed that the entry you mentioned has what i'm after!
Could it be because the the WO didn't consistently collect or retain copies of the battery diaries? Strictly speaking, a battery is a sub-unit, so they may have been overlooked because the WO requested unit diaries. You sometimes see stamps such as "Tactical Investigation Directorate' or 'Permanaent preservation used in Official History' on files. Perhaps they only bothered with battery diaries where they dealt with operations of particular interest?
Here are four CRA (Commander, Royal Artillery - the divisional RA commander) files from WO 175. Hopefully one is fromn the right div! They may just contain the CRA's HQ housekeeping, but it's also posible that they may contain reports etc. that were being passed up and down.
Here are four CRA (Commander, Royal Artillery - the divisional RA commander) files from WO 175. Hopefully one is fromn the right div! They may just contain the CRA's HQ housekeeping, but it's also posible that they may contain reports etc. that were being passed up and down. Actually, none of them are the right division... they were in the 78th division at that time. I always wondered what the CRA was in the catalogue, so what you have said has helped a lot, although unfortunately I see that 78 div have a diary entry for RA but no CRA which is a shame, (the period I am after is 1942). Perharps the CRA is the RA?? I'll have to check it out. This unfortunately means another trip to kew. Just when I thought I was finished there it sucks me right back in. I may be able to get there in a few weeks... we'll have to see.
Perharps the CRA is the RA?? I think that's a safe bet, it's sitting with all the other divisional troops.
Just come late to this thread and it looks like Phaethon's already been sorted by the chaps. Just to add on the general thread of Artillery research, one should not forget the role of Corps (Army) Arty & the later AGRA's (Army Groups Royal Artillery). As an AGRA usually consisted of 1Fld, 4Med and 1Hy Regts the AGRA War-Diary as well as the Regt's is a must. Rob
And CCMA too.. I found some great bits of info today in I Corps 1940 file. Commander Corps Medium Artillery (CCMA)
Just come late to this thread and it looks like Phaethon's already been sorted by the chaps. Just to add on the general thread of Artillery research, one should not forget the role of Corps (Army) Arty & the later AGRA's (Army Groups Royal Artillery). As an AGRA usually consisted of 1Fld, 4Med and 1Hy Regts the AGRA War-Diary as well as the Regt's is a must. Rob Rob, the info I have which lead me to the 138th mentioned it as a Field group. The period being in 1942 I take it that it was just reffering to the regiment and that there was no separate diaries floating around out there that I should be looking at and it wasn't an AGRA? I also just noticed that the 78th div has an CRASC what on earths that?
There is a man on the research enquiries desk 1st Floor public area at Kew (Wish I'd got his name last week) who is the go to guy regarding the war diary files. I had a query regarding the RA files and he seemed very clued up.
Rob, the info I have which lead me to the 138th mentioned it as a Field group. The period being in 1942 I take it that it was just reffering to the regiment and that there was no separate diaries floating around out there that I should be looking at and it wasn't an AGRA? I also just noticed that the 78th div has an CRASC what on earths that? 138th (City of London) Field Regt RA has always been Divisional Arty (47/78 Divs) so your ok with what you've got to look for regards diaries, Corps/AGRA does not apply. Field Group is just a general term for the towed arty. Rob
As I understand it, Battery diaries were only produced when the Battery in question was acting independantly. If operating in concert with other Batteries of their own Regiment then only a Regimental War Diary would be written. Hope that makes sense. Phil
The few bty diaries I've seen have covered 'normal' service and ran alongside the regtl one: G, K & CC Btys 5 RHA, and the btys of 65 A/Tk Regt. I have also seen an extract of a bty diary from 3 RHA (M Bty, I think it was) that is not held by TNA.
Idler I concur, there are "some" Battery diaries that run alongside Regimental ones, but most are for "independant" Batteries, certainly thisa is the case as the war progressed. Phil
I imagine 'unit' and 'detachment' were open to a bit of local interpretation. As always, all we can do is be thankful that they saved as much as they did.
