Hi all I have been asked to help someone research her Dad's war service with 78 Div Sigs. She got the service records from Army personnel but all the sections detailing actual service - North Africa, Egypt (R&R), Italy and Austria are missing. She tried again and got the same answer. Does anyone know why those sections might be missing and whether there are any other avenues she might try? Without them, the WDs won't be of much use, so we seem to be at a dead end. Perry
Perry. If it helps, and she is interested, I am guiding a group to Cassino on 17-20 May 18. We look in some detail at the actions of 78 Inf Div during the Third and Fourth Battles. Regards Frank
Thanks Frank I'll mention it to her, though she has recently been out with the MCS. TD, I believe it was the Army Personnel Centre.
Perry The only place service records can be obtained from are - Request records of deceased service personnel - GOV.UK which is the MOD in Glasgow - so maybe they need to be resumbit - if his wife is still alive then she can apply for free, otherwise there is a fee I am uncertain of what if any records are held by the Army Personnel Centre, it may only be pay books etc TD
TD, it seems to be the same thing. Their site give the same link. Their full name is the Army Personnel Centre Historical Disclosures Section.
My Uncle was also in 78 Div signals, with attachments to HQ 11 Bde and as the CO's signaller of 2nd Bn Lancashire Fusiliers (also 11 Bde, 78 Div) If he was in Divisional Signals, his path will follow that of the Division overall. As Dicky has noted, if you can post a scan we may be able to help further, but if it is one of those single sheet summaries they used to reply with in the 70s, 80s and 90s more work required. These days they send copies of the actual documents.
Phil. Are you absolutely sure that your uncle was the CO's Signaller. That is normally a role for a member of the Bn's Signal Platoon. The R SIGNALS provided and ran the Rear Link from Bn HQ to Bde HQ but did not get involved with CO's TAC - at least not in my day when I was the Regt Signal Offr for my battalion. Regards Frank
I am clear with the records we have been sent and they are copies of the originals, not a summary of any type. However, the active parts of his service are simply not there. This suggests that these active records were kept separately (Base and Div records?) then merged back at some later point. You can see the entries showing the mustering in/out of the BNAF/CMF eg 08/07/44 Emb[arked] for MEF + SOS BNAF. Then 17/7/44 TOS, MEF from BNAF. But nothing in between. Sounds as if there is no other place they might be then. Phil, there's a chance they served together but without the active bits we'll never know.
For interest's sake, do any of you with your own records see this pattern - that is, the active sections on different sheets of paper?
Perry Have you got the details of active service records, ie. Army B103 forms? These are the more detailed movements. See here for my dad's records. Ernest Illingworth, Army Records | WW2Talk Lesley
Lesley that is exactly what we have (though written on casualty forms as if they ran out of the correct form). And a lot of the entries are identical to yours as they were both in 78th Div. However whenever the Div goes to war, his records are skipped. The dates jump from debarkation in Algeria (?) for Torch, to some time in early '43, then 22/7/43 (embarkation for Sicily) to 7/44 - the Divs' spell in Egypt. Then from the end of Egypt to demob in Austria. Clearly the active records were on different sheets and these haven't been included. Actually your own examples jump from 2/9/44 to 1945, skipping any details in Italy. Maybe I am looking for something that is never there?
Hi, Just jumping in to ask if you have copies of his B102 - the central registry Index Card - the front side has personal details and the rear will have abbreviated details of his movements. It may not be unusual for no details to be recorded on his B103 from Sept 1944 return to Italy until demobilisation if “nothing” of note happened to him. My uncle followed the same 78 Div route and his Sept 44/demobilisation B103 only has details of the medical route he followed Oct/Nov 1944 and hs LIAP to UK Sept 1945 followed by his posting to a POW camp Oct 1945 till he returned to UK for demobilisation Feb 1946. Your last para above may be correct but it would be helpful to have sight of the original document. Steve
The Rear Link radio, because of the distances that it needed to transmit over, would have been too large to be man packed. He could have simply been instructed to support the CO because manpower was short. Manpower was always short in Italy. Frank
